Why Is Lexus So Inconsistent Across their Models?
08-14-12, 09:21 AM
#16
They might be a model year apart, but your cars were essentially developed a generation apart. You're at the end of one with the IS while the RX is/was brand new.
08-14-12, 10:26 AM
#17
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the GS is geared towards sports, much different suspension, smaller than the ES, and has the RWD 306hp engine, the ES doesnt. ES overlaps with entry and midrange luxury cars now. The GS is geared more for sport and is a smaller car. So if someone wanted a midrange comfortable car but not a GS they can just fully load an ES and its still cheaper than a loaded GS. Car almost has as much interior space as an S class. You want a midrange sports car get a GS. You want midrange comfortable car get a loaded ES.
sunroofs are detrimental to performance, and panoramic sunroofs are moreso. Not going to see them in an IS/GS. I wish my IS didnt have a sunroof at all, I dont even use it. Chassis rigidity and roof strength is greatly reduced with a panoramic.
sunroofs are detrimental to performance, and panoramic sunroofs are moreso. Not going to see them in an IS/GS. I wish my IS didnt have a sunroof at all, I dont even use it. Chassis rigidity and roof strength is greatly reduced with a panoramic.
Last edited by ydooby; 08-14-12 at 10:55 AM.
08-14-12, 11:21 AM
#18
Except that the GS is not a sports car. It's a luxury sport sedan that should pick up where the ES, a luxury sedan, leaves off, and add sporty handling to it. Make the panoramic sunroof an option like the E-Class does and let the buyers decide whether they care more about luxury or sport. It should go well with the package that includes rear-seat audio/climate controls. More so in the LS.
08-14-12, 11:24 AM
#19
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Except that the GS is not a sports car. It's a luxury sport sedan that should pick up where the ES, a luxury sedan, leaves off, and add sporty handling to it. Make the panoramic sunroof an option like the E-Class does and let the buyers decide whether they care more about luxury or sport. It should go well with the package that includes rear-seat audio/climate controls. More so in the LS.
I know cause I love driving or riding in it. I agree and wish the GS would offer it and well all Lexus. At least a dual sunroof, it brightens the rear up.On the other hand it does add more road noise, adds weight, complexity, sacrifices structural rigidity and cuts into headroom.
But yes I would love to see it on the GS.
08-14-12, 11:27 AM
#21
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08-14-12, 11:54 AM
#22
Although I doubt in reality ES will come anywhere close to GS, just ask Hoovey about it.
It is a bit confusing, one day people want ES to have everything as GS and then another day people want ES not to have everything as GS. In reality, every single feature on ES is probably going to be inferior to the "same" feature in GS.
I had top end 3GS and top end 2IS, and while both have very similar features by name, each one worked a lot better in 3GS.... like:
- seat ventilation - in IS you hear it working pretty loud, in GS never a whisper.
- memory seats - they would move for entrance in GS, not in ES
- IPS in IS is unusable and useless, while it was perfection in GS.
and many other little things like that... so you could say they have the same features, but if you actually have both cars there will be no doubt which one is more expensive one.
08-14-12, 12:35 PM
#23
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My only inconsistent gripe is where they put those darn garage door opener buttons. Our 08 GX had the buttons on the ceiling and our IS has them in the mirror. Now the 12 GX has them in the mirror and the LS has them in the ceiling. What gives? More annoying than anything.
08-14-12, 01:31 PM
#24
Except that the GS is not a sports car. It's a luxury sport sedan that should pick up where the ES, a luxury sedan, leaves off, and add sporty handling to it. Make the panoramic sunroof an option like the E-Class does and let the buyers decide whether they care more about luxury or sport. It should go well with the package that includes rear-seat audio/climate controls. More so in the LS.
And the GS F Sport beat the 535, A6, M37 all in sport trims. They are making each car more distinct in identity and purpose now. People searching for a comfortable luxury car wont shop the GS with the ES. ES can essentially overlap entry and mid range luxury segments due to its size. The only sedan that is bigger is the LS. The GS had no identity in the last model, it was a little bigger than the IS but not that much better interior wise. What kind of identity was it fulfilling? Other than that, there were barely any differences. I found the interior to be better in my IS than the last GS. Then the next IS is going to be even more hardcore sport than the GS is. Each car is getting its own distinct identity now which was missing in the last generation.
If anything there is greater consistency with the new generation Lexus cars. They have a clearer purpose and identity now.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 08-14-12 at 01:44 PM.
08-14-12, 02:41 PM
#25
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I see your point but I guess variety is the spice of life. I think a lot of it has to do with design and budget. In the why would we want every Lexus interior to look and function exactly the same
08-14-12, 03:25 PM
#26
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GS is going for a more sports oriented purpose. How can the GS pick up where the ES left off. The GS is smaller than the ES. So the GS should get a larger body but still be a sports sedan? How is that going to be possible without the performance being horrific? The ES and GS are achieving two completely different purposes. Why would anyone want them to pick up from each other? None of the BMW, Benz, Audi, Infiniti, Acura has anything like the ES in this segment. They are all sports sedans. What if you dont want a sports sedan at this price range and just want something comfortable? The ES fits the bill that no one else really has. Before you had to buy an Avalon.
And the GS F Sport beat the 535, A6, M37 all in sport trims. They are making each car more distinct in identity and purpose now. People searching for a comfortable luxury car wont shop the GS with the ES. ES can essentially overlap entry and mid range luxury segments due to its size. The only sedan that is bigger is the LS. The GS had no identity in the last model, it was a little bigger than the IS but not that much better interior wise. What kind of identity was it fulfilling? Other than that, there were barely any differences. I found the interior to be better in my IS than the last GS. Then the next IS is going to be even more hardcore sport than the GS is. Each car is getting its own distinct identity now which was missing in the last generation.
If anything there is greater consistency with the new generation Lexus cars. They have a clearer purpose and identity now.
And the GS F Sport beat the 535, A6, M37 all in sport trims. They are making each car more distinct in identity and purpose now. People searching for a comfortable luxury car wont shop the GS with the ES. ES can essentially overlap entry and mid range luxury segments due to its size. The only sedan that is bigger is the LS. The GS had no identity in the last model, it was a little bigger than the IS but not that much better interior wise. What kind of identity was it fulfilling? Other than that, there were barely any differences. I found the interior to be better in my IS than the last GS. Then the next IS is going to be even more hardcore sport than the GS is. Each car is getting its own distinct identity now which was missing in the last generation.
If anything there is greater consistency with the new generation Lexus cars. They have a clearer purpose and identity now.
Last edited by ydooby; 08-14-12 at 03:41 PM.
08-14-12, 03:47 PM
#27
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I see nothing wrong with each Lexus line having its own personality. As for advanced technology, most car manufacturers have introduced the latest and greatest at the high end of their lineups and then gradually brought it down through the ranks. That makes sense in that it gives the high-end lines something special, wihch justifies getting folks to pay the higher prices. Mercedes has done that for years. Anyone who thinks a C-Class is just as advanced as an S-Class simply has never owned a Mercedes. I like the way Lexus does business. If my garage door opener is on the mirror in my ES and on the overhead console in my RX, I can adjust. I mean it's not rocket surgery, right? I find it far more disgusting for car companies to turn out cars that are woefully similar regardless of line. After a while it seems pointless to move up or even sideways.
Someone posted a belief that the RX seems to have been made by a different company from, say, the LS line. I don't see it that way. I think the RX is a very distinct crossover and is simply a different kind of vehicle from an LS sedan. Still, the RX bears all the traits I associate with Lexus, including outstanding quality and thoughtful engineering and design. Meanwhile, my daughter-in-law's ML350 is very different from my S Class Mercedes, so in this respect Lexus is not unusual. Different vehicles for different customers to meet different needs. Car manufacturing 101.
I am a little surprised to see so many nitpick Lexus in this forum. I mean, Lexus makes the highest quality cars on earth and has the best dealer lineup and is fairly priced. It's fair to criticize it when it blunders but it seems pointless to pick nits. But that's just me.
Someone posted a belief that the RX seems to have been made by a different company from, say, the LS line. I don't see it that way. I think the RX is a very distinct crossover and is simply a different kind of vehicle from an LS sedan. Still, the RX bears all the traits I associate with Lexus, including outstanding quality and thoughtful engineering and design. Meanwhile, my daughter-in-law's ML350 is very different from my S Class Mercedes, so in this respect Lexus is not unusual. Different vehicles for different customers to meet different needs. Car manufacturing 101.
I am a little surprised to see so many nitpick Lexus in this forum. I mean, Lexus makes the highest quality cars on earth and has the best dealer lineup and is fairly priced. It's fair to criticize it when it blunders but it seems pointless to pick nits. But that's just me.
Last edited by NCRon; 08-14-12 at 03:53 PM. Reason: minor editing
08-14-12, 04:08 PM
#28
Like 1SICKLEX mentioned, just because the E63 AMG can be optioned with a panoramic sunroof it doesn't mean the E63 AMG isn't a luxury sports sedan. Luxury is about options. If the GS can have rear-seat audio/climate controls I don't see why the GS's rear seat passengers can't enjoy the luxury of more sky light as well. Since Lexus decided the GS F-Sport is more driver-focused and can't be optioned with rear-seat controls, I guess it's fine for the F-Sport to leave out the panoramic sunroof, but for the non-F-Sport version I don't see why a panoramic sunroof can't be included as part of the rear-seat package.
In reality, main complaint about GS was rear headroom so I dont think anyone sane would decide for panoramic roof if they could.
08-14-12, 06:03 PM
#29
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I knew I shouldnt have brought in the S class and C class example into the story because people are fixating on that. Its not just about the packages and options, its on a more fundamental level than that.
Nobody has addressed why the CT doesnt have LED license plate lights, nor that fact that the ES doesnt have LED map lights, or the fact that the lower models dont have back lighting for the garage door buttons! If you look at the rear view mirror of a C class, it has the same home link buttons as the S class.
The turn signal on the C class is the same and provides the same 3 click quick signal as on the S class, but for some odd reason, the new GS has the new three click system but the new ES doesnt! Why doesnt the ES hybrid have LED headlights as even an option?! Im not forcing them to raise the MSRP to include it stock but at least make it an option like every other hybrid in the line up!
Look past at just the packages and look at simple design inconsistencies!
Nobody has addressed why the CT doesnt have LED license plate lights, nor that fact that the ES doesnt have LED map lights, or the fact that the lower models dont have back lighting for the garage door buttons! If you look at the rear view mirror of a C class, it has the same home link buttons as the S class.
The turn signal on the C class is the same and provides the same 3 click quick signal as on the S class, but for some odd reason, the new GS has the new three click system but the new ES doesnt! Why doesnt the ES hybrid have LED headlights as even an option?! Im not forcing them to raise the MSRP to include it stock but at least make it an option like every other hybrid in the line up!
Look past at just the packages and look at simple design inconsistencies!
08-14-12, 06:15 PM
#30
I knew I shouldnt have brought in the S class and C class example into the story because people are fixating on that. Its not just about the packages and options, its on a more fundamental level than that.
Nobody has addressed why the CT doesnt have LED license plate lights, nor that fact that the ES doesnt have LED map lights, or the fact that the lower models dont have back lighting for the garage door buttons! If you look at the rear view mirror of a C class, it has the same home link buttons as the S class.
The turn signal on the C class is the same and provides the same 3 click quick signal as on the S class, but for some odd reason, the new GS has the new three click system but the new ES doesnt! Why doesnt the ES hybrid have LED headlights as even an option?! Im not forcing them to raise the MSRP to include it stock but at least make it an option like every other hybrid in the line up!
Look past at just the packages and look at simple design inconsistencies!
Nobody has addressed why the CT doesnt have LED license plate lights, nor that fact that the ES doesnt have LED map lights, or the fact that the lower models dont have back lighting for the garage door buttons! If you look at the rear view mirror of a C class, it has the same home link buttons as the S class.
The turn signal on the C class is the same and provides the same 3 click quick signal as on the S class, but for some odd reason, the new GS has the new three click system but the new ES doesnt! Why doesnt the ES hybrid have LED headlights as even an option?! Im not forcing them to raise the MSRP to include it stock but at least make it an option like every other hybrid in the line up!
Look past at just the packages and look at simple design inconsistencies!