Fizzboy7

I didn't say people should buy the Civic based on reliability alone. I mentioned fuel economy (very important these days), resale value, and I should have also mentioned initial value (raging deals right now). Those are all compelling reasons. At least in this class of cars, money is probably the basis for most decision-making (hence the term "economy car"). "How much will this thing cost me over six years?" Fuel consumption, repairs, resale, apr rates...not handling, road feel/noise, and the nitpicks CR had. Where it matters most in this class, the Civic qualifies.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

While this happens on all forums, there's no need to bring it up before it even happens.

Agree completely! I feel the same about sales forecasts too! If a mfr forecasts selling one car a year and does so, that doesn't mean it's a success

Have no idea where this came from. If you don't like comments from those you think are not enthusiasts you can use the ignore function, but it's not clear to me why any non-enthusiasts would be on a car forum!

Kira X

iTrader: (24)

I've heard about the good incentives on them. I'm surprised that there is that big of an increase in sales. Civics are really popular in my area and I've barely seen any of the new ones on the roads.

The Elantra was a good purchase. Hyundai has really come along way over the years. I too don't mind the hard plastics on the Civics. Like you said, reliability is what's important.

rld14

The thing is, we're not the mainstream. We're the nut job car freaks. And that applies to this board and other car boards that I go on for wildly different stuff (I have a very eclectic group of cars).

But I also work in the car business, and the extreme vast majority of the public doesn't care about what we care about. I can remember last summer when the Elantra was the hottest thing on the market and you just couldn't get them, the lease on them was competitive, but the Corolla and Civic were and are cheaper. Both are inferior cars, IMO the Corolla especially so. But what would happen? "yeah the Elantra is nice and all but the Corolla is $25 a month less". That's what it really boils down to, and why Honda is selling Civics. Is the car a failure from our standpoint? Yup. So is the insight, but my best friends father leased one for his girlfriend, $150 a month with $1000 at signing. For that kind of money the car cold have been called the Schmuckface 1000 and people will buy em.

NCRon

The scorn heaped on the Honda Civic has nothing to do with the fact that it is not for "enthusiasts." The scorn comes because Honda's products, including the Civic, are frequently overrated and over-hyped and because the company has been known to treat its customers like dirt at times. There is nothing wrong with saying such things in this forum and there is a lot right about it. In my view--and it is purely my view--Honda has boring styling, mediocre performance and so-so durability. Ever see an old Honda? They don't hold up well. I think Honda has built a cult-like following because the people who originally bought its cars were mainly driven by cheapness but couldn't bring themselves to admit it in their yuppy circles. So they told the world that they bought their Honda not because it was cheap but because Hondas are great. Giving an opposing view is useful in a forum designed for people who at the very least are interested in cars. Everyone can decide which postings to believe and which to reject. And for the record, among Japanese carmakers Toyota has long been the leader in quality.

mmarshall

How, then, would you define the term "enthusiast"? You, me, Paul, Hoovey, Ryan, Fizzboy, and any other posters in this forum probably all fit that definiton in different ways, and in how we evaluate and look at a car. I for one, to give an example, am an "enthusiast" that (also) just happens to like a number of vehicles that much of the auto-press would not consider in that category...or at least in how many of them use the term.

Even the auto-press itself, though, to a lesser extent, varies in their view and use of the term. Take the MotorWeek TV show, for example, and John Davis, their chief auto-tester (I casually know John, BTW, but he's not a close friend of mine). John, as I see him, is every bit an "enthusiast" ...heck, he makes his living test-driving and valuating cars. But, unlike some of his contemporaries at, say, Car and Driver or Road and Track, he's not over-aggressive, pushing cars to their absolute (or beyond) their limits .

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't know how 1sicklex defines it, and can't speak for him of course, but from posts, perhaps he means those who modify their cars and go to car meets and are fiecely loyal to one brand. i don't agree with that definition.

mmarshall

Yes....using that definition, the SEMA show, which some CL members attend, would probably be the ultimate "enthusiast" gathering.

LexFather

Enjoy your Civic's.

Last year's SEMA was very interesting with all the feedback from CL members, this year I can't wait to meet up with Lexus and some of the real leaders from Cali. Would you like the topic of discussion?