bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

good post. i thought my little 'graph' said the same thing, but maybe not.

mmarshall

OK, fair enough. I'll reserve further comments until I've actually driven a 4GS. I don't have any specific review requests for it...but I might try one out in my spare time. Up to now, though, BMW has generally been King of chassis-engineering....with M-B close behind.

grabber2

Since when did british like japanese car?.......they said the FRS/BRZ/GT-86 is ugly........BBC = British BS* Channel.

They compare the sc430 with a Hyundai and claim the lateral is better

Fizzboy7

I missed your graph, my bad. Yes, very accurate. We are on the same page.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

put it this way. before the 4gs, i never felt driving is a strong point of lexus, not even isf. but 4gs? it blows away 535 in terms of how it drives

LexFather

Except they might be better equipped but only the Hyundai is now really cheaper and only the GS is as good. The others are not as good as the E/5 series. They are the status quo and for good reason, they are good vehicles.

I drove a modified 550 yesterday and while it handles like a much bigger car, the quality, features, size, seats, etc, its quite frankly the perfect car for 99% of the people out there. With the E-class they are the safe bets. They are not bad cars at all and have EARNED their reputation through decades of experience. BMW and Benz have done a tremendous job with those cars over the years where it is the default choice. Contrarily outside the GS, there hasn't been a consistent player for 2 decades and the Asians have not been consistent. The last M was much better received than the current model with better lease rates that helped sales. The GS started slow, got hot, had a rough 3rd gen back to a hot 4th gen. The RL has been a joke for over a decade.

With the yen trading like crap and people seeing 60-70k Infiniti and Lexus cars, they might as well stay German. The value has completely eroded especially if the car isn't even better. Then they have so many versions of the German cars while the Asians and others offer only a few ways to get it. No coupes, no wagons, no AMG/M cars etc.

The GS has gotten incredible reviews and they are right at target for the car in regards to sales. Its not blowing sales out the water, its on pace and this is the 3rd best selling car in class. Ouch.

Mike every review has stated how the 5 has gotten soft and the GS is the best drive in class. I just drove the this week and the GS drives smaller and more nimble.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed. excellent post. i kinda think of the 4gs like bangle's first 5 series - handles great but most were or but facelift improved it and this gen, while much tamer, is really pretty elegant. hopefully facelift of 4gs or next gen will keep and improve the excellent dynamics and not be a butta face.

natnut

That's what happens when people operate according to the pre-written script in their heads rather than assess what their senses are actually telling them. The new GS is clearly a better driver's car than the 5 series. It drives like the legendary E39 5 series( arguably the best driving 5 series in BMW history) while the new F10 5 series drives like the sportier short-wheel-base overweight 7 series that it actually is. (In case people don't know, the current 5 is a modified 7 series chassis).

Ironic that the car model that now echoes the old BMW tradition of best ride-handling balance in a sport-sedan is a Lexus (4GS).

It will probably take one more generation of 5 series before public perception catches up to the true reality that 5 series isn't the best handling sport-sedan in its segment anymore.

If I were a BMW die-hard and just had to have a BMW sedan, I would take the new F30 3 series . It has as much room as the old E39 5 series, in reality is as roomy as the current 5 series in the rear, blows away the 5 series for boot space and drives almost as well as the new GS. The only downside is the unnatural throttle response of the 3 liter turbo engine and the cheap downmarket interior : the fit-and-finish is clearly 1 segment down from the GS and 5er.

I suspect that BMW deliberately downgraded the 3 series interior in order not to cannibalize current 5 series sales.

mmarshall

OK, Henry and Mike, you two have convinced me to do at least a test-drive. It's more money than I'd spend on my own personal car, but if you two have that high an opinion of it, it's worth a sample.



I was reading Road and Track recent comparo of the new M5 vs. the Caddy CTS-V, and the M5 still managed to smoke the V in lap-times, despite's R&T's complaints about the M5 (now) being too quiet and isolated in its road-feel. The V, of course, in comparison, felt and drove raucously like a 4-door Corvette.

chikoo

mb/bmw crowd care about status in the society, not "values".

people who like mb/bmw but need better value, go for the lexus.

people who like lexus/toyota but want an even better value go for hyundai :P

werewolf

My experience (having had a 2GS, driven a 3GS and owned a w211 e350)

Mercs are engineered to drive like a smaller car (the E-class was nimble for its size) and to be very stable at higher speeds (highway, autobahn). They are average in low-speed and stop and go but always feel well-planted. To buy a baby Merc is to miss the point IMO. They excel at large to med-sized sedans and are very expensive new but can be decent value used.

The GS was better in stop and go and never had an electronics issue. The GS is a logical choice but had less feel through the wheel and was actually less comfortable for long journeys but I loved it with the 4.0 v8. The GS felt like a better car for realworld driving in LA but the Merc actually felt better engineered (I know I know).

The 5 series I never liked b/c it feels too small to take 4 people over longer distances and BMW v8 / turbo 6s are not the most reliable engine to own. If you could find one, a 530i e39 with a stick and a FSH could be an option...

spwolf

i know you do... problem is that people do read them, and this is how part of that heritage, branding and prestige is born... if you read 10 times how dull, boring, lifeless and slow 4GS is, you will start believing it... heck i will start believing it.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i guess answer is time. it took mb a lot time to really break through with the amg name