Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

AZ Nissan Leaf owners reporting abnormal battery capacity losses

Apparently, some Nissan Leaf owners are finding the crispy weather in Phoenix, Arizona a bit too severe for the batteries in their electric cars.

The CBS affiliate in Phoenix reports that a growing number of the area's Leaf owners have lost large chunks of battery capacity, and the forums at MyNissanLeaf.com indicate that similar complaints have been recorded in other parts of Arizona, Texas and California. A table of battery capacity losses is being kept online here. We contacted Nissan regarding the issue of reduced capacity in hot climes and received this response from spokesman John Schilling:
"We are aware of the handful of customers that are concerned; we are studying their individual situations and experiences."

Nissan North America Director of Product Planning Mark Perry said in a recent video, "Heat is definitely not a friend of batteries. But I'm talking about severe 130-, 140-degree Fahrenheit kind of heat... Don't park your Nissan Leaf – or any electric vehicle – where it's going to be more than 120 or 130 degrees."

In the same video, which you can find embedded below, Perry says, "In just normal conditions, you don't have to worry about it." Thing is, "normal conditions" mean different things to different people, including those who live in Phoenix, Arizona, where daily high temperatures average over 100 degrees several months of the year.

According to CBS5, Nissan "does not consider the issue a problem" but is "investigating five complaints about the rapid loss of battery capacity... all of them in Arizona."

It's interesting to note that the issue of the Nissan Leaf battery's lack of an active thermal management solution was brought up way back in January of 2010. At the time, Nissan's Perry said, "We don't need thermal management in the U.S. ... We've gone on record saying that the pack has a 70 to 80 percent capacity after 10 years."

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/18/a...pacity-losses/

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

well that's not good hah

I8ABMR

even car standard car batteries here only last a year and a half to two years safely. It been like this with both G35s, Acura TL, Nissan Murano, and LS460. Im sure you may be able to get a little more life out of them but when the temps are at a solid 105-115 everyday for months it will dry a battery out in no time. Heat is the enemy of electronics

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Nissan drivers confirm heat taking toll on Leaf batteries

Ouch. There's now some independent analysis that says the Nissan Leaf wilts in the heat.

Led by Leaf owner Tony Williams, a group of Nissan EV owners tested a dozen Leafs in Phoenix last weekend. The group put the Leafs on a pre-planned route at pre-determined speeds to measure their fully charged ranges and to find out if extensive heat has led to premature degradation of the car's battery capacity, according to posts on the My Nissan Leaf forums and Green Car Reports.

The group found that half the Leafs tested had, at "full" charge, battery-capacity indicators showing just 10 out of the original 12 bars and averaged slightly less than the 73-mile single-charge range certified by the EPA. One Leaf had just eight bars showing – indicating about a third of the battery capacity was gone – and went just 59 miles before petering out. And one Leaf, purchased new only a month ago, was already missing a battery-capacity bar.

Leaf owners in Arizona started making noise this summer about how the desert heat was causing their cars to lose battery capacity quicker than Nissan originally said. The automaker, which hasn't commented on the most recent Arizona results, previously estimated that the Leaf's battery pack will keep as much as 80 percent of its capacity after a decade of use.

Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn recently told The Wall Street Journal that the company is working on a second-generation Leaf battery that will be cheaper than the current one. That could spell good news for a model whose U.S. sales through August were down 31 percent from a year earlier.

AutoblogGreen inquired with Nissan about the Phoenix test, and spokeswoman Katherine Zachary offered the following:
Nissan has been working hard to understand some Leaf customers' concerns in the desert southwest. We've tested a number of individual vehicles and will be contacting those owners to discuss their individual results in the near term. We also anticipate having more information to release to the wider Arizona customer base soon. We are taking Phoenix customer concerns seriously and are working hard to ensure their full satisfaction.

In other words, there will be more on this topic down the road.

http://green.autoblog.com/2012/09/20...eaf-batteries/

I8ABMR

I am surprised that any resident of AZ would not expect the insane heat to have an effect on the battery life and performance

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Dealers better put some sort of disclaimer before any lawsuits arise

spwolf

nobody would buy these EV's if they told them that their car battery, that costs more than car itself, will be dead between 3 and 5 years :-)

I8ABMR

This is why I wouldnt buy one . ITS TOO HOT!!!! I think as long as the manufacturer will extend the battery warranty then it should be fine. If not then they need to brace for the coming class action law suits

spwolf

well they tell in small print that battery life is 5 years... for instance Tesla does that, not only in Arizona.

But because people are so used to Prii that are so reliable, they dont actually realize this is an problem. They dont know that Prius uses only 40% of its battery capacity to make them last longer than 10 years, while EVs use up to 100%.

How many would buy Tesla Model X if they understood that their $80k car would require battery replacement of $20k-40k after 100,000 miles, thus rendering car worthless?

GS69

Nissan to Buy Back 2 LEAFs from Disgruntled Owners

Nissan Motor Co. has agreed to buy back 2 of the 7 Leaf electric cars whose owners in Arizona have publicly raised concerns about aging batteries.

The gesture could help mollify a small group of Leaf owners and green-car enthusiasts who have been raising questions about whether the electric car's battery is too quickly losing its ability to hold an adequate charge.

In response, Nissan earlier this week said it would enlist an independent, global panel to help it communicate with worried Leaf owners that there is nothing wrong with their batteries.

"We are not happy that we have any customers with concerns and we're working hard to improve our customer communications to better meet their expectations," Nissan chief spokesman Dave Reuter said. "In Phoenix, we have sold approximately 450 vehicles, with the majority of those to very satisfied owners. In fact, worldwide Leaf customers are some of Nissan's most satisfied. It's important that this perceived issue is placed in context."

The concerns of seven disgruntled owners -- raised publicly and posted on environmental websites and online forums -- comes as Nissan prepares to begin mass production of the Leaf in Smyrna, Tenn.

Nissan is just days away from starting up a factory there that will produce as many as 200,000 lithium ion battery modules annually, supporting a new Leaf assembly plant built to supply U.S. dealers with 150,000 electric cars a year.

The U.S. project has cost Nissan $1.6 billion and is part of a global, multi-site $5 billion Leaf manufacturing program.

The small group of Phoenix customers believes that their Leafs are not holding a charge as long as they should be after only a year or 2 of use.

Nissan attempted to respond quickly to the complaints this summer, but has been unable to resolve them.

Last weekend, Nissan's head of North American research and development, Carla Bailo, posted an open letter on the Leaf owner website, mynissanleaf.com, announcing that the company has asked electric-car advocate and former General Motors marketing manager Chelsea Sexton to form a worldwide group to help it communicate to owners about the Leaf.

Nissan said the panel will independently review data that Nissan engineers have compiled to investigate the complaints.

"Members would be selected by Chelsea, not Nissan, and they would recommend their own mandate," Bailo's letter says. "But our hope is that they would hold up a mirror to us and help us to be more open and approachable in our communication and to advise us on our strategy.

"We at Nissan stand by our product, and we also stand by our customers."

Nissan has repeatedly reminded buyers that the Leaf's lithium ion battery modules will lose their ability to hold a charge with age. But they should retain 80% of their charging capacity after 5 years of use, the factory has made clear.

The 7 Phoenix owners claim that their batteries are losing capacity after only a couple of years, and have questioned whether the product is flawed.

In response, Nissan took all 7 Leafs to undergo tests at its Arizona proving grounds. Engineers found that the cars in question simply had higher-than-normal mileage, Bailo said in her public letter.

She said Nissan concluded that the battery performance was in line with the wear and tear on the specific cars.

In estimating the Leaf's battery will hold 80% of its original charge after 5 years, Nissan said it assumed owners would drive, on average, 12,500 miles a year.

Reuter said Thursday that Sexton's independent panel will serve as an intermediary on questions about Leaf technology, help Nissan understand customer concerns and also help Nissan reassure customers.

He said the panel -- which has not been formed yet -- will be presented with all of Nissan's data on the situation.

"We're not going to say to the panel, 'Take our word for it,'" Reuter said. "We're going to give them all of our data to see for themselves. The data shows that the car is performing as it should be.

"We're 100% certain that there is no defect."

Separately, Reuter said that Mark Perry, Nissan's director of product planning for the Leaf since the project began and a familiar face in national electric-car circles for the past few years, will retire from Nissan on Friday.

Reuter said Perry, 55, has been planning the retirement for months.

The Leaf, which first went on sale in December 2010 as a low-volume import from Japan, now retails for $36,050 including destination charges, and is eligible for a $7,500 federal credit.

About 14,000 Leafs have been sold to U.S. consumers over the past 2 years, and about 37,000 globally.

Nissan also plans to use the same lithium ion battery to fuel an upcoming Infiniti vehicle, a small commercial van, and an electric taxi that will be used in New York City and possibly other cities.

Reuter said Nissan negotiated to buy back the 2 Leafs in Phoenix in accordance with Arizona law.

"The Arizona state repurchase law was only used for formula guidance in determining appropriate terms and conditions of the repurchase, including calculation of the repurchase amount," Reuter said.

The company said the remaining 5 Phoenix Leaf owners had not expressed interest in selling their cars.

Big Andy

On the plus side; all that bright sunlight means they can charge them cheaply using solar panels.

LexFather

With Toyota saying they are backing out of electric cars and Leaf sales plummeting I wonder if Nissan's electric strategy was sound? Tesla and Fisker hasn't been smooth either and the Volt only got a jolt when they offered their crazy lease deal. The leaf based Infiniti sedan might be DOA.

I8ABMR

WOW . had no idea