Aron9000

I'd say 60-65k is pretty much top of the mark for the "couchmobile" market type of sedan. And for that money, you get a pretty swanky Benz E-Class, which is a much more compelling purchase than a damn Kia IMO.

BTW this class is not dead IMO, there is the Buick LaCrosse, Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES, Hyundia Genesis, BMW 528i(yes that once vaunted sport sedan is now a couchmobile IMO), Benz E-class, Caddy XTS, Chevy Impala, Ford Taurus, Lincoln MK whatever, Chrysler 300c(which BTW is the best in traditional terms, since its the largest, RWD, and V8)

Toys4RJill

None of the above that you mentioned are really couch mobiles.

TangoRed

See the response below. Also note that I said the market wasn't very big (it isn't), not that it was dead.

Yes, exactly.

I'm test driving a K900 later today actually to confirm my suspicions, but based on reviews the K900 has a roly-poly suspension not seen on most cars today. I've driven every single one of the cars Aron9000 just listed (rental car upgrades/loaner car E-class/girlfriend's 528i) and none of the reviews have suggested they're as softly sprung as the K900. For me, the Taurus was the only one approaching couch mobile status. Also note that the Avalon has been criticized for its firm ride.

mmarshall

A Mercedes S-class, even the base 550 form, can run 100K or higher. In fact, its base price is well north of 90K. According to Consumer Reports, the current S-Class, even with its decent handling for its size, is the ultimate couchmobile, having what they claim as the most comfortable ride they have ever tested.


Your opinion noted, but have you driven a K900? Its handling isn't quite to E-class standards, but it competes very well in most other ways.

Not all of these are what I would call couchmobiles. Believe it or not, the new 2014-2015 Impala is probably the smoothest-riding one of this paticular bunch...and generally sells in the 30s or low 40s at most.

I simply wouldn't buy a new Avalon. Though its drivetrain is Toyota-reliable and, smooth/refined. its very thin sheet metal, interior materials (not the interior look, but the materials used), firm ride (noticeably firmer than in the past) and general feeling of lightness turned me off.

Toys4RJill

Exactly. Even the Taurus really does not qualify with its V6. And the car really is too small. Even the last gen Avalon didn't really qualify.

The Town Car and Fleetwood were in a segment of their own, obsolete designs that were making Caddy and Lincoln no money and more importantly, they were tarnishing their images.

TangoRed

Test drove the K900 over lunch. Everything was as expected. I really liked the interior and general atmosphere, but the body control wasn't there. Pillowy ride, too soft in some situations. Nice first try but I would've expected better given the Equus. I found the start up sequence with the chimes and digital cluster to be entertaining.

mmarshall

Well, that's why I said, in my own K900 review, that if one is looking for a sharp-handling sport-sedan, look elsewhere. The K900 is simply not that vehicle. But the K900 does do something not often found nowadays....provide a soft, semi-floating ride over bumps for good isolation, surprisingly so given the large wheels and low-profile 40/45-series tires. I can only imagine how comfortable it would be with 55s or 60s.



Going back and forth from SPORT and NORMAL in the drive-mode also changes the digital gauge-cluster from digital to electronic/back-lit analog (my own clear preference).

Toys4RJill

So is it worth $60k? Would you rather spend the same money on a real luxury brand?

TangoRed

Who said I was looking for a sharp-handling sports sedan? There's a huge valley to play in between. Feeling the body heave to-and-fro after completing an aggressive stop, for example, is something I would not want. Other $60k cars manage to do the job without that type of slop. The ride was indeed great, but corners induced too much drama to give this car a passing grade.

So i noticed. BMW's gauges do the same thing. Fun party trick but the sport mode in that car was, above all things, a polite joke.

-Based on feature content, refinement, and interior quality I wouldn't feel bad recommending my grandma look at one for $55k.
-Add in a suspension that can keep the body on a more even keel when going around corners? Sure, worth the $60k in my opinion. See refreshed-for-2014 Hyundai Equus.
-I would absolutely spend the same money on a luxury brand instead, because at that price I enjoy some having brand snob credentials (just being honest) and a better dealership experience.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Rightttttttt............he was a driver and a fan before they had the deal.............right The only reason LeBron James would be anywhere close to a Kia is because he is pay lots of $$$ to do so, he didn't know what a K900 is before Kia showed him the money

mmarshall

I was simply using that term as a figure of speech.....meaning you probably wanted something at least a little more firm and responsive than a 1980s-vintage Buick LeSabre.



Yes, that's true, but today, most cars in general, even some so-called "Luxury" ones, tend to be on what I would call the firm side of neutral. Real Softies (by today's standards) like the K900 and Equus are few and far between....at least in the American market. One reason, though, for the give in the K900 and Equus suspensions is that, in South Korea, that's the way that most of that market usually likes its cars, too......smooth and cushy. The French also like rolling easy-chairs in both suspensions and seats, but, even with Renault ownership of Nissan/Infiniti, we don't get any true French-designed cars in the U.S. any more....haven't since the late 1980s.

Yes, I noticed a few boat-like motions upon braking to a stop...but not that bad.



Agreed. All I noticed in the Sport mode was slightly higher full-auto shift-points in the transmission. Both modes had the same jumpy throttle from rest and soft ride/handling.

Plus, should some drunk or cell-phone/texting addict run into your dear Granny, a car like the K900, with its size, weight, hefty sheet-metal, many safety features, and other things would go a long way towards helping to protect her.


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Toys4RJill

And that pretty much sums up the K900. It just won't work as the brand image means nothing compared to the big boys.

There are very few vehicles that are not luxury nameplates that can command high prices, the Land Cruiser, Corvette, Viper (if they even make it anymore) and the Nissan GTR are the only vehicles that come to mind.

corradoMR2

Very refined car for the money, but I can't get past the brand and the bland Acura RL-inspired exterior.

mmarshall

Although it does happen, buying a car solely based on image, IMO, is foolish.

You've said before you personally don't consider Chrysler a luxury nameplate, but top versions of the 300, especially the SRT-8, can command close to 60K. And Dodge Challenger Hellcats START at 60K.

There are reasons why the Toyota Land Cruiser commands the cash it does. It is a superb vehicle built not only to the highest luxury-SUV standards but also has, along with the Mercedes G-Wagen, Range Rover, and its own Lexus LX brother, one of the best mass-produced off-roading chassis/drivetrains on earth. The Jeep Wrangler, of course, is also an excellent Mountain Goat, but doesn't provide anywhere near the comfort while doing do..

mmarshall

I think a lot more than just ad money was involved. Pro athletes can often go just about anywhere and get money to push somebody's products....there's no reason why Kia's money should be any more attractive to them than anybody else's. It is no secret (and common knowledge) that big NFL and NBA guys like big, cushy, comfortable vehicles.....just like the way the K900 rides. Of course, it's also common knowledge that anther group of NFL/NBA guys tend to like cars like the Corvette and Dodge Viper, which fits their macho image. And, even outside of the NBA, in golf, look how long Tiger Woods was associated with Buick. He stayed with Buick for years, even when he could have easily walked away, not actually doing so until Buick fired him because of the well-publicized screw-ups in his personal and married life. Now, of course, big Shaq is pushing Buicks instead....though I'm not convinced that the ad-picture of him stretching out in a LaCrosse is undoctored. I've reviewed a LaCrosse...and I know what that car's headroom/legroom limits are with the sunroof closed.