bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

agreed. true.

anti-toyota tirade?

you said:

and i brought up facts (1 full size truck, no sports cars for years) - not a tirade - about toyota because i know your implied point is it's not fair for hyundai to compare themselves to toyota/lexus.

my apologies if you felt it was an attack. honda is certainly not precious to me, neither is any other brand. love certain models of certain brands and respect some aspects of some brands.

by volume, sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...y_manufacturer

good advice.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you'll be missed.

qft!

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I've said it once, will say it again. I still believe Hyundai is fluff. The product onslaught that has ensued since 2010 has been immense, hence I can see why quality control slipped from running their plants especially the AL one 24/7. Don't get me wrong, they've made strides and I commend them, but they need to slow down. The stats on paper do not back up the real world. Point in case is the Sonata, Camry, Passat comparison test. Camry wiped the floor with the Sonata in almost every category. Did so to the Passat too but we all know the VW got the nod because of the way it rode . For what its worth, I do also believe there is a lot of user error in the industry, but I'll stick by my guns and hold off on the Hyundai bandwagon for a bit longer

mmarshall

I'm not sure you can blame the plant. I was skeptical of that new AL plant myself when it first opened in 2005-2006 (all new plant, all-new country, all-new car, all-new work force)....four classic recipes for trouble. But, to my surprise, the last-generation Sonata, which was built there, turned out to be one of Hyundai's best-built products....as good or better than anything from Korea. Given the choice, I would have purchased the last-generation Sonata before I would have the last-generation Camry...by a significant margin.

If there is a problem with the latest Hyundai products now (and that still remains to be seen), rather than the plants, I think it's probably more with the use of lighter-weight materials in the design...a problem shared by a number of other automakers. Sheet metal, doors, windows, and many interior-trim parts just don't seem to have the same solidness that they did a few years ago. The Buick Verano, to its credit, seems to be one of the few exceptions....it puts other Buicks, and most GM products, to shame.

spwolf

there is no doubt that Hyundai has took giant steps, and it was all part of long term plan.
i keep repeating how our regional head, who is now one of the directors in Toyota China, told me in 2002 (!!!!!), how Hyundai is their biggest competitor as they are rapidly improving their products. That was in 2002!!! I thought he was crazy completely because at that time Hyundai produced crap. But it was time when Hyundai hired a LOT of Japanese and European engineers and personnel to run it and now we see fruits of that labor.

HOWEVER, I will repeat this again and again. It is clear that their cars have been optimized for the EPA, more than others. So what happens in real life is that you get better MPG in Corolla, thats rated 27/34 than in Elantra thats rated 29/40.

For people who dont believe - check fuelly.com.

So, in real life, Corolla with 4AT gets better MPG than Elantra with 6AT. 34 MPG is better than 40 MPG.

So yeah, if I was a consumer I would be pissed as well.

Others have often commented how their cars are not as fast as their HP ratings... for instance Veloster Turbo is slower than it should be, significantly.

Again, If I purchased Elantra thinking hey, it is 40 MPG car, and I got less mpg than my previous Corolla that was 34 MPG car,I would be seriously pissed and I think everyone else would.

I believe Toyota is very, very careful about their EPA ratings for this purpose especially.
If we remember the old Camry Hybrid vs Fusion - Ford killed it in EPA ratings, it got i think 39 while Camry had 34... what happened in real life? No magazine ever got more than 1 MPG difference, and some actually had Camry better, and on websites tracking the difference, it was around 1 mpg instead of 5.

Same as new Camry, so far people average 40 MPG, where it should be 41/42, so thats pretty close... while Sonata gets advertised with 40* and then you get 34 MPG. You buy a hybrid because there is large 40 and small *Highway and then you get 33-34, how can you not get really really mad?

Let me quote one user from Hyundai forums:

So I dont think Hyundai is being unfairly targeted here, what should people do? You spend money on car based on marketing, and you dont get what you were promised, heck your old car gets better...

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

So perhaps the blame should go to Hyundai's marketing team for being too convincing to the general populous hah

mmarshall

People should simply try driving sensibly before they b**ch about their gas-mileage. In general, the harder you press that gas pedal, the more fuel you will use. Though I don't always get the EPA figures in town, I usually get EPA (or better) on the highway.

tex2670

While watching a Ford commercial last week, my 17 year old nephew immediately called Ford out for promoting the "600 mile driving range" as just meaning that the Ford had a bigger gas tank. If he can figure that out, any consumer can read a window sticker.

J.P.

I have seen ads from 5-6 OEMS that did the same thing, Ford is just one of them...

spwolf

well, marketing units rule the car world... you know how Toyota Europe is actually called? TMME - Toyota Motor Marketing Europe.

To better explain it - imagine if your 528i got 32mpg and you were happy with it... then IS250 comes out and Lexus claims it gets 38 mpg... you are awed by this superior technology, you go to the dealer and buy the car. 3 months later, you realize that driving over the same routes as before, you get 30mpg... hard to imagine who would not be very annoyed with this, afterall its not like you can return it back.

spwolf

so you are saying that on sites like fuelly, with 10,000 drivers reporting their mpg, Hyundai drivers are idiots and dont know how to drive while Toyota drivers are smart ones and they get better mpg from inferior car?

And during tests, magazines on purpose get worse mpg from Hyundai cars on purpose, probably paid by other manufacturers?

:-).