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Old 06-26-12, 09:22 AM   #1
Motor
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Default 2015 Toyota Prius

2015 Toyota Prius Will Be Lighter, More Slippery
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/pri...-slippery.html
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Just the Facts:
-The fourth-generation Toyota Prius, due around 2015, will be made of lighter materials, with a more slippery shape, and will ride on tires with lower rolling resistance — efforts all aimed at boosting the fuel economy of the world's best-selling hybrid car.
-The current 2012 Prius, which dates to 2009, is rated by the EPA at 51 mpg in city driving and 48 mpg on the highway, with an estimated range between fill-ups of 526 miles.
-Toyota has sold more than 2.6 million copies since the Prius was launched in Japan in 1997.

The fourth-generation Toyota Prius, due around 2015, will be made of lighter materials, with a more slippery shape, and will ride on tires with lower rolling resistance — efforts all aimed at boosting the fuel economy of the world's best-selling hybrid car, a company source tells Inside Line.

The 2012 Toyota Prius is rated by the EPA at 51 mpg in city driving and 48 mpg on the highway, with an estimated range between fill-ups of 526 miles.

The challenge of achieving better fuel economy with the next-generation Prius car is greater than for the last because many of the easier energy-saving wins have already been realized.

But the company has identified tire rolling resistance as a key area of potential, and is collaborating with tire makers to achieve gains. Aerodynamic improvements are the second priority, followed by weight savings.

The same source reveals that Toyota considered making the body of the second-generation Prius from aluminum, but scrapped the idea because of the high investment cost and concerns that production volumes would not be high enough to offset them.
Let the pointless speculation begin...
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Old 06-26-12, 09:39 AM   #2
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I think that Toyota can probably pull off 60mpg using the same/current powertrain; but changing the aerodynamics, weight, tires, and gearing.

However, to be super competitive and ahead of the game (I mean, the Prius must be the benchmark), Toyota needs to create something evolutionary. Bigger/better batteries perhaps? A more fuel-efficient engine? More efficient use of solar powered paneling? All these ideas must be considered...
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Old 06-26-12, 10:08 AM   #3
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Lighter is always better!
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Old 06-26-12, 12:17 PM   #4
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just mass produce the plug-in battery to bring the cost down and make it standard in the Prius then remove 500 lbs from the car and call it a day
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Old 06-26-12, 01:10 PM   #5
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Eventually need to move away from the nickel batteries to get 60 MPG.....Still amazing the current model gets 50 MPG
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Old 06-26-12, 01:59 PM   #6
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Eventually need to move away from the nickel batteries to get 60 MPG.....Still amazing the current model gets 50 MPG
how? there is no gain in mileage with lithium batteries. Weight difference is very small, maybe 50-60lbs.
they would gain a little bit more maximum output, but what they do then is reduce the capacity to lower the cost, so at the end, you end up with same product.
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Old 06-26-12, 02:39 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
how? there is no gain in mileage with lithium batteries.
For the current Prius no, lithium ion is about 30% lighter for the same capacity, not a big deal when you have a small battery pack. Of course when the car is 100% electric then 30% is a huge deal, but at the same time I do wish Toyota would go lithium and up the capacity of the Prius battery so you could get say 5-10 miles out of them before the gas burner kicks in.
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Old 06-26-12, 05:11 PM   #8
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For the current Prius no, lithium ion is about 30% lighter for the same capacity, not a big deal when you have a small battery pack. Of course when the car is 100% electric then 30% is a huge deal, but at the same time I do wish Toyota would go lithium and up the capacity of the Prius battery so you could get say 5-10 miles out of them before the gas burner kicks in.
yeah but thats not reasonable :-).

Actual weight difference is very small, so it makes no sense for Prius. It also makes no sense to make every Prius an plugin.

However I bet Toyota will use lithium for its advantages - 50lbs off the weight, smaller capacity battery, higher motor output, and try to leverage their capacity (they produce >1 million hybrids per year), to make lion cheaper than nimh. And that will also make PHEVs cheaper.

However what mpg savings will that bring? I dont think any significant. It will make Lexus hybrids a little bit faster though, adding around 5-10hp to the equation.

However from now on, there is no easy way to get to 60 MPG at all.

Best would be to use some newly developed turbo engine that could spin at 70mph at lower revs than 1.8l and spend less gas. Toyota said that efficiency of those engines in their labs is approaching 42%, which is 10% more than gasoline engine they use... but thats still not 60 MPG and it is adding additional cost to Prius, together with lions, it would make it significantly more expensive car.

Generally though, real life 50 MPG like Prius c is very good though. They need to improve other cars to reach that.
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Old 06-27-12, 03:39 AM   #9
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That is really awesome and I would love to have this one! I am waiting.
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Old 06-27-12, 03:40 AM   #10
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If Toyota doesn't raise the bar, someone else will. Back when the Prius got started, there was no one else. Today, it's a completely different playing field. You bet your bottom dollar the next Prius will set the standard once again. If it's one thing Toyota has done right over the years, it's the Pruis.
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Old 06-27-12, 05:21 AM   #11
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To push mileage even higher, a small turbodiesel engine would be a logical choice.
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Old 06-27-12, 05:58 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
However from now on, there is no easy way to get to 60 MPG at all.
I had an '06 and a '10 (even with the 17" alloys) that I averaged 60+mpg...you have a try a tiny bit but on my old commute it was totally do-able [speed limit on my commute was 45mph, I would click cruise on 52 and if I saw a red light or stop sign ahead I coast a bit up to it]. Not a hypermiler--I did use AC and would stomp on it to make a green light or to get in front of other traffic.

if you go to fueleconomy.gov you'll find these real world nbrs reported for the Prius C
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Old 06-27-12, 10:18 AM   #13
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I had an '06 and a '10 (even with the 17" alloys) that I averaged 60+mpg...you have a try a tiny bit but on my old commute it was totally do-able [speed limit on my commute was 45mph, I would click cruise on 52 and if I saw a red light or stop sign ahead I coast a bit up to it]. Not a hypermiler--I did used AC and would stomp on it to make a green light.

if you go to fueleconomy.gov you'll find these real world nbrs reported for the Prius C
well i am talking about EPA, not individual numbers... i had 04 and i got 40mpg with it... which was great number btw, as my small petrol and diesels all got worse consumption on same roads.

to increase EPA by 20%, it is not easily achievable and it has nothing to do with type of battery used.
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Old 06-27-12, 12:14 PM   #14
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well i am talking about EPA, not individual numbers.

to increase EPA by 20%, it is not easily achievable and it has nothing to do with type of battery used.
who cares about EPA numbers? they're total crap anyway.....only 15% of new cars are tested....and the testing methods are crap as well.

So how does the EPA lab work?

Vehicles are tested on dynamometers, or dynos, which are like giant treadmills for cars. The vehicle is held stationary while its wheels spin the dyno’s large rollers. There are just three dynos, and only one of them is a four-wheel-drive unit with sets of rollers for both the front and rear wheels; the two other dynos are spun by only a car’s driven wheels. The four-wheel dyno was added fairly recently; before that, all testing had to be done on two-wheel-drive dynos, which necessitated the additional complexity of disconnecting driveshafts on AWD models so they could be converted to two-wheel drive. (How weird can it get? The EPA created a two-wheel-drive version of the $1.7 million, 1001-hp Bugatti Veyron—the world’s fastest and most outrageous production car—for this purpose, prompting visions of burnouts of nuclear dimension.) When tested this way, additional drag is applied to the dyno to replicate normal operation of the AWD system.
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Old 08-28-13, 04:04 PM   #15
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Default Next-gen Toyota Prius aiming for 55 mpg, could arrive in 2015

Next-gen Toyota Prius aiming for 55 mpg, could arrive in 2015


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http://green.autoblog.com/photos/toy...#photo-855314/

Toyota to Launch 'New Era' of High-MPG Hybrids, Expand Its Global Hybrid Rollout
Early information on Next-Generation Prius
VP Carter challenges industry: 5 million U.S. hybrid sales by end of 2016
Global verification tests of new wireless/inductive charging system
2015 hydrogen fuel cell vehicle at Tokyo and CES shows
YPSILANTI, Mich., August 28, 2013 - Want to save money and gas? Toyota plans to help consumers do both.

Promising continued gains in fuel economy, Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) Managing Officer Satoshi Ogiso outlined the launch of a new era in hybrid technology with the arrival of the next-generation Prius, while Toyota Motor Sales (TMS) Senior Vice President of Sales Bob Carter issued a challenge for the industry to significantly step up its commitment to hybrids as a core technology.

As a backdrop to these announcements, Toyota gathered in one place for the first time ever the entire Toyota and Lexus global hybrid line up. The company has sold more than 5 million Toyota and Lexus hybrids worldwide. The environmental effect has been an estimated 34 million ton reduction in C02 - the equivalent of taking 4.8 million vehicles off the road.

"I would like to see us -- as an industry -- accomplish the same thing in the U.S.," said Carter. "That is...5 million hybrids, cumulatively, in the U.S. by close of business 2016. That results in 3 billion gallons of gasoline saved, which is more than enough gas for the entire population of the United States to drive from San Francisco to Los Angeles in a Prius. It's do-able. And I think we will do it."

Stressing Toyota's further commitment to industry hybrid leadership, Ogiso announced that "when the next generation Prius arrives, it will begin a new era for a broad range of Toyota and Lexus vehicles" and will be "the first to introduce a substantially improved family of hybrid powertrains."

Between now and the end of 2015, Toyota plans to introduce 15 new or redesigned hybrid vehicles globally. These new hybrid powertrains will deliver significantly improved fuel economy in a more compact package that is lighter in weight and lower in cost. Ogiso said the performance of this new generation of powertrains will reflect significant advances in battery, electric motor and gas engine technologies that are part of Toyota's larger strategy towards the electrification of the automobile through hybrid, battery electric and fuel cell technologies.

Ogiso used the next-generation Prius as an example.

"The current Prius has held America's fuel economy crown for many years," said Ogiso. "In its three generations, Prius MPG has improved on average by about 10 percent, each generation. The challenge to continue to improve at this rate -- to beat your own record -- becomes very difficult, but makes it all the more motivating. We are very motivated to beat our record."

The next Prius will feature improved batteries with higher energy density – the relationship between the battery's output and dimensions. Toyota, already a leader in advanced drive battery technology, has stepped up its research, development and production capacity of both nickel-metal hydride and lithium-ion and will use these technologies where appropriate in its expanding focus on electrification of the automobile. Toyota has also ramped up development on new battery technologies like solid state and lithium air, as well as devoting resources focused on chemistries beyond lithium, such as magnesium and other low-valence materials.

The next Prius will also feature electric motors that will be smaller in size. He noted that the current Prius motors have four times the power density of the first model and that "the next will be even higher."

In addition, the thermal efficiency of the gasoline engine in the current Prius is 38.5 percent. The next-generation will boost that level to more than 40 percent – a world best.

The next Prius will also utilize Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA), featuring a lower center of gravity and increased structural rigidity, which will contribute to greatly improved driving dynamics.

Improved aerodynamics will contribute to an all-new exterior design. Ogiso promised a roomier interior and significant refinements in design, layout and ease of operation.

Ogiso also said the next-generation Prius Plug-in (PHV) is being developed in parallel with the standard Prius model.

"We have been listening very carefully to Prius PHV owners and are considering their requests for additional all-electric range. We have also heard from owners that they would like a more convenient charging operation," Ogiso said. "In response, we are developing a new wireless/inductive charging system that produces resonance between an on-floor coil and an onboard coil to transmit power to the battery, providing charging without the fuss of a cable." He said verification work on the system will be conducted in Japan, the U.S. and Europe in 2014.

Work is also progressing on Toyota's first commercially available hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, a new mid-size four-door sedan whose concept will be unveiled at the Tokyo Motor Show in November. That vehicle will make its North American debut in January at the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, where Bob Carter will discuss the role of Toyota's U.S.-based engineering team in its development, as well as preliminary plans for introduction into the U.S. market.

Carter said that the hydrogen fuel cell will utilize core hybrid technology and will be a primary element of Toyota's future mobility strategy.

"Toyota currently accounts for more than 60 percent of U.S. hybrid sales and 70 percent of the nearly 3 million hybrids on U.S. roads today," said Carter.

"Over the past 5 years, the percentage of hybrid sales at Toyota has grown from 10 to 16 percent of our total sales mix. Honda is less than 2% and Ford is less than 3%. And while hybrid as a percentage of the total market is just under 4 percent, we believe that it can...and must grow."

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/08/28...-prius-55-mpg/
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