Toyota to launch TMG performance sub-brand
06-20-12, 09:03 PM
#46
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: ca
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why not use TRD?
No need to confuse the consumer.I own an Audi TT and Audi's performance arm is quattro GmbH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_GmbH
06-20-12, 10:32 PM
#47
From what I can tell and I really didn't look that much into it, AMG is sportier in everyways, different engine, tranny I don't know, it looks the same on the surface, bigger diffs, bigger exhaust, sport seats, steering wheel, different body kit, bigger brakes.............etc. Is just like BMW M, is sportier everything. The TT V8 in AMG is 5.5L, in the 550 is 4.7L.........so is not just a re-tune. Suspension wise, sure ABC is optional in the 550, but is it just as firm in the 550? I don't know, never driven a 550 with ABC, I just know the airmatic in the 550 is way softer. The only recent performance model car that I found that is nothing but a bigger engine is the Hyundai Genesis 5.0L R-Spec, everything else is the same as the 4.6.
I know DCT is very smooth, but the best ones is still never as smooth as a fluid torque converter, you can always feels the clutch engaging, regardless of how smooth it is. I checked it out closely on the Panamera, the PDK suppose to be one of the best DCT, I can clearly feel the clutch slipping in. Same with the Ferrari FF that I recently drove, but then is a Ferrari, maybe is tuned to be aggressive. But is just simple logic, a clutch would never be as smooth as fluid engagement. I know for my daily sedan, torque converter is my choice. I want DCT on my weekend sports car.
That is interesting. Is just personally I don't want a clutch in my daily commuter.
I know DCT is very smooth, but the best ones is still never as smooth as a fluid torque converter, you can always feels the clutch engaging, regardless of how smooth it is. I checked it out closely on the Panamera, the PDK suppose to be one of the best DCT, I can clearly feel the clutch slipping in. Same with the Ferrari FF that I recently drove, but then is a Ferrari, maybe is tuned to be aggressive. But is just simple logic, a clutch would never be as smooth as fluid engagement. I know for my daily sedan, torque converter is my choice. I want DCT on my weekend sports car.
That is interesting. Is just personally I don't want a clutch in my daily commuter.
i read somewhere before the abc is just the same on amg vs normal. yes they always say sports tuned, but you know how that one goes. just thought of something, do amg cars have wider fenders?
a clutch design you will feel it when you shift it hard. if you are just talking about normal driving, there is no way you can feel significant difference between normal tq converter vs mct/dct. in the end if you want to remotely bring performance to the table, clutch type is the way to go.
06-20-12, 11:24 PM
#48
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 1,935
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the engines are modified and tuned but it's not "brand new". if you read about it, the 6.2L was the first engine that's really developed by amg (from what i read), all the others are just changed. this is vs bmw m, like the v8 in m3/5, and the v10, they are all made just for m.
i read somewhere before the abc is just the same on amg vs normal. yes they always say sports tuned, but you know how that one goes. just thought of something, do amg cars have wider fenders?
a clutch design you will feel it when you shift it hard. if you are just talking about normal driving, there is no way you can feel significant difference between normal tq converter vs mct/dct. in the end if you want to remotely bring performance to the table, clutch type is the way to go.
i read somewhere before the abc is just the same on amg vs normal. yes they always say sports tuned, but you know how that one goes. just thought of something, do amg cars have wider fenders?
a clutch design you will feel it when you shift it hard. if you are just talking about normal driving, there is no way you can feel significant difference between normal tq converter vs mct/dct. in the end if you want to remotely bring performance to the table, clutch type is the way to go.
Suspension wise it's completely different as well C63's track is 1" wider than C350, but the models with airmatic might have similar modified suspension BUT with a different part number so it should be different as well.
Last edited by Stormwind; 06-20-12 at 11:30 PM.
06-20-12, 11:39 PM
#50
The AMG engines are different from normal ones, back in the sc days the V8 are 5.5 liters +SC and none amg is 5.0 NA. Then it's 6.2 NA, versus the normal 5.5 v8 and now it's 5.5 TT compares to the normal 4.6 TT.
Suspension wise it's completely different as well C63's track is 1" wider than C350, but the models with airmatic might have similar modified suspension BUT with a different part number so it should be different as well.
Suspension wise it's completely different as well C63's track is 1" wider than C350, but the models with airmatic might have similar modified suspension BUT with a different part number so it should be different as well.
06-21-12, 01:38 AM
#52
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
The info is probably correct on the DCT part. This isn't your typical LS. 650hp should say it all. Pascal Vasselon highlights this isn't a TUNING company, but they are making a brand new LS. The naming is still in the air, but F/TMG, doesn't matter. What matters is it's being done!
06-21-12, 09:58 AM
#55
Serious answer: Please keep away from Lexus. Give the LS performance edition to the F team and let them continue R&D. For all the good the company (TMC) is doing in going for a more performance-oriented path, if this goes through their branding could become a cluster%$#&. Sure, TMG and AMG have different sources for their names but it won't stop the fanboys from thinking Toyota is merely copying the Germans again. To make it worse, dumb *** CEO of TMG goes ahead and makes the connection by saying "Hurhurhur, just replace the A with a T and you have TMG. Derp." Talk about one step forward, two steps back (exaggeration). C'mon Toyoda, please have one consistent philosophy, not a bunch of fragmented brands trying to do similar things.
Build up the F brand and don't add anymore confusing sub-brands. Some people already think the addition of the F-sport is going in a bad direction.
Build up the F brand and don't add anymore confusing sub-brands. Some people already think the addition of the F-sport is going in a bad direction.
06-21-12, 10:06 AM
#56
All M3 have wider fenders, but the E36 M3 didn't. None of the M5 has it, but the E60 M5 got it.
On the AMGs, most of them don't have wider fenders, but the C63 (non black series) and the latest W212 E63 has wider fender on the front.
Last edited by BNR34; 06-21-12 at 10:09 AM.
06-21-12, 10:40 AM
#57
Lexus Connoisseur
The idea is great but it's somewhat confusing. We have F which is supposed to be the factory performance line for Lexus, and you have TRD which is the factory performance line for Toyota. So what happens with F Sport, TRD Sportivo, TRD Modellista, and etc? The idea is great but there is no continuity globally.
06-21-12, 12:40 PM
#58
The idea is great but it's somewhat confusing. We have F which is supposed to be the factory performance line for Lexus, and you have TRD which is the factory performance line for Toyota. So what happens with F Sport, TRD Sportivo, TRD Modellista, and etc? The idea is great but there is no continuity globally.
So there can be a IS-F, GS-F, LFA then a TMG LS.
Just like everyone said, as long as they make it good, I can careless what the name is.
06-21-12, 01:23 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I don't see the confusion. F/F-Sport is tuning the existing car. TMG isn't tuning the car, they're recreating it. We don't have all the details, but TMG is just as capable, if not more so at turning these cars into serious performance machines. Think of the F-Sport as upgrades to the car but nothing drastic. TMG is the drastic change. Everything is new. Transmission, redone engine, body, suspension... I think TMG version will be a step beyond the F-Sport/F cars. That's what I'm getting from this.
06-21-12, 02:14 PM
#60
Autoblog caught on to the same story, nothing new we haven't heard:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/20/t...ersion-of-amg/
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/20/t...ersion-of-amg/