INTERVIEW: Yoshihiko Kanamori, Lexus GS chief engineer, Lexus Group
06-26-12, 10:41 PM
#47
Pole Position
Agree completely. My only issue and point is that I don't see anything from Lexus to give us hope that anything along those lines is forthcoming. Personally I don't think Lexus is interested in heading in that direction and any thoughts otherwise is based on blind faith.
They cared at one point of making the fastest sedan (or even being in the compeition) but it seems like it was just one point in time.
lol Natnut posted up the article above to rebut my 'no passion' argument and I don't think it was very good example. It talked more about the experience and the comraderie than how the car felt. They went to hard places, not any hard driving. When they were passed on the road by other cars or cut off, the response was about how good the brakes were or improving safety.
They cared at one point of making the fastest sedan (or even being in the compeition) but it seems like it was just one point in time.
lol Natnut posted up the article above to rebut my 'no passion' argument and I don't think it was very good example. It talked more about the experience and the comraderie than how the car felt. They went to hard places, not any hard driving. When they were passed on the road by other cars or cut off, the response was about how good the brakes were or improving safety.
Besides, your misgivings seems a bit odd. Do I care if my car is made with passion when it drives and handles so well and puts a smile on my face during the test-drive? The Chief Engineer could be half-dead with boredom and hate the car with a passion for all I care. Just as long as he delivers the goods -- which IMO --he did-- at least in terms of handling and ride and driving feedback and road connection.
One fact should reassure you then. Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda, a passionate race car driver himself was very hands-on with the GS project. He personally test-drove the car and kept sending the Chief Engineer back to the drawing board to make adjustments to the car's ride and handling until it satisfied the CEO's high standards.
Like I said before, shoehorning a V8 into the car is easy. Developing a world-beating chassis is the hard part--the part which has been accomplished IMO in the case of the 4GS.
Last edited by natnut; 06-27-12 at 04:15 AM.
06-27-12, 05:03 AM
#49
To me both of these cars are made to save gas. ESh however, will for sure have better MPG numbers than the GSh, so logically it is a better buy and less costly too. Not to mention, that they are both equal in size. The GSh was supposed to be a V8 replacement, but as we can see that it is not so. If Lexus was really serious in changing people's perspective on hybrids, they would make the new GSh close to 400hp mark. Remember when 3GSh came out? It was really something, even others took notes and started copying. This time, Lexus took a few steps back unfortunately....
06-27-12, 09:21 AM
#50
To me both of these cars are made to save gas. ESh however, will for sure have better MPG numbers than the GSh, so logically it is a better buy and less costly too. Not to mention, that they are both equal in size. The GSh was supposed to be a V8 replacement, but as we can see that it is not so. If Lexus was really serious in changing people's perspective on hybrids, they would make the new GSh close to 400hp mark. Remember when 3GSh came out? It was really something, even others took notes and started copying. This time, Lexus took a few steps back unfortunately....
I dont understand this thinking - so 350hp is not good enough, but 200hp is plenty. Somehow you are trying to suggest that 350hp car with 32 MPG is not good enough. Where is the competition? Who is doing it better? We read the reviews and answer is - nobody.
if your complain about GS450h is lack of power, then there is no way you can argue that car with 150hp less is better.
06-27-12, 09:40 AM
#51
Lexus needs to start advertising for the GS 450h NOW because the new ES will be here in two months and I'm sure they will have a big push for that.
I think another campaign for the GS line as a whole - standard, F Sport and Hybrid - would be a good idea since the first round of commercials focused mainly on "the new face of Lexus" and less on the GS itself.
I think another campaign for the GS line as a whole - standard, F Sport and Hybrid - would be a good idea since the first round of commercials focused mainly on "the new face of Lexus" and less on the GS itself.
06-27-12, 10:03 AM
#52
2013 GS450h got same speed but 30% better mpg... thats step back? How?
I dont understand this thinking - so 350hp is not good enough, but 200hp is plenty. Somehow you are trying to suggest that 350hp car with 32 MPG is not good enough. Where is the competition? Who is doing it better? We read the reviews and answer is - nobody.
if your complain about GS450h is lack of power, then there is no way you can argue that car with 150hp less is better.
I dont understand this thinking - so 350hp is not good enough, but 200hp is plenty. Somehow you are trying to suggest that 350hp car with 32 MPG is not good enough. Where is the competition? Who is doing it better? We read the reviews and answer is - nobody.
if your complain about GS450h is lack of power, then there is no way you can argue that car with 150hp less is better.
others are complaining that gs450h doesn't have enough power because they compare it with other v8 in current market, which is what lexus is placing the car as well. that part is true.
for those who care more about gas mileage and green, then obviously the esh is much better choice.
to me personally? yeah you can say nobody is competing with gsh and no one is better, but then again, it's like no one is even competing with it because it's in the middle land. i am not saying it's a bad thing. just like the sc430, it doesn't compete with 6 series or sl at all, it's in its own. it depends on execution. i am definitely keeping an eye.
06-27-12, 10:49 AM
#53
2013 GS450h got same speed but 30% better mpg... thats step back? How?
I dont understand this thinking - so 350hp is not good enough, but 200hp is plenty. Somehow you are trying to suggest that 350hp car with 32 MPG is not good enough. Where is the competition? Who is doing it better? We read the reviews and answer is - nobody.
if your complain about GS450h is lack of power, then there is no way you can argue that car with 150hp less is better.
I dont understand this thinking - so 350hp is not good enough, but 200hp is plenty. Somehow you are trying to suggest that 350hp car with 32 MPG is not good enough. Where is the competition? Who is doing it better? We read the reviews and answer is - nobody.
if your complain about GS450h is lack of power, then there is no way you can argue that car with 150hp less is better.
Which is why I said that Lexus should have kept the GSh as high perfomance hybrid. Leave the gas saving for ES.
By the way, the new GS450h 0-60 times are 5.6 secs, compared to old GS450h 5.2 secs.
Last edited by SNiiP3R; 06-27-12 at 10:57 AM.
06-27-12, 11:39 AM
#54
Pole Position
Not everyone who wants V8 torque wants to pay V8 fuel prices and cause V8 carbon footprint.
According to most real life reviews the new GS450h's torque is described as plenty and adequate. Apparently, the 4GS engineers tuned the hybrid drivetrain to deliver V8 levels of torque sensation and ease of lane changing and overtaking is similar to current V8s.
Like Rominl said in the past, too many of you(including me) are guilty of magazine racing without actually testing the car for ourselves. From the reviews I read (and I posted a video review in the 4GS sub-forum), the GS450h performs like a V8 for real-life road manoeuvers, delivers a connected road feel, all while delivering the carbon footprint of a 4 cylinder and with no harmful diesel emissions to boot.
The truth is that most countries have prohibitive fuel costs that make V8s unfeasible and the big unspoken secret is that current diesels who meet Euro 5 standards may still have harmful emissions other than carbon dioxide that are carcinogenic (latest WHO study). IMO, this new GS450h allows those in other countries to enjoy V8 torque without guilt and without harm to the environment and to the future generation.
Diesels in Europe command a price premium over comparative petrol models with similar hp with the only advantage being lower fuel costs and increased low-end torque. The GS450h is Lexus equivalent of the Euro's diesels except without the carcinogenic diesel emissions so it similarly commands a premium over the GS V6. Lexus is thinking globally and not just for US consumers...
According to most real life reviews the new GS450h's torque is described as plenty and adequate. Apparently, the 4GS engineers tuned the hybrid drivetrain to deliver V8 levels of torque sensation and ease of lane changing and overtaking is similar to current V8s.
Like Rominl said in the past, too many of you(including me) are guilty of magazine racing without actually testing the car for ourselves. From the reviews I read (and I posted a video review in the 4GS sub-forum), the GS450h performs like a V8 for real-life road manoeuvers, delivers a connected road feel, all while delivering the carbon footprint of a 4 cylinder and with no harmful diesel emissions to boot.
The truth is that most countries have prohibitive fuel costs that make V8s unfeasible and the big unspoken secret is that current diesels who meet Euro 5 standards may still have harmful emissions other than carbon dioxide that are carcinogenic (latest WHO study). IMO, this new GS450h allows those in other countries to enjoy V8 torque without guilt and without harm to the environment and to the future generation.
Diesels in Europe command a price premium over comparative petrol models with similar hp with the only advantage being lower fuel costs and increased low-end torque. The GS450h is Lexus equivalent of the Euro's diesels except without the carcinogenic diesel emissions so it similarly commands a premium over the GS V6. Lexus is thinking globally and not just for US consumers...
06-27-12, 01:19 PM
#55
Not everyone who wants V8 torque wants to pay V8 fuel prices and cause V8 carbon footprint.
According to most real life reviews the new GS450h's torque is described as plenty and adequate. Apparently, the 4GS engineers tuned the hybrid drivetrain to deliver V8 levels of torque sensation and ease of lane changing and overtaking is similar to current V8s.
Like Rominl said in the past, too many of you(including me) are guilty of magazine racing without actually testing the car for ourselves. From the reviews I read (and I posted a video review in the 4GS sub-forum), the GS450h performs like a V8 for real-life road manoeuvers, delivers a connected road feel, all while delivering the carbon footprint of a 4 cylinder and with no harmful diesel emissions to boot.
The truth is that most countries have prohibitive fuel costs that make V8s unfeasible and the big unspoken secret is that current diesels who meet Euro 5 standards may still have harmful emissions other than carbon dioxide that are carcinogenic (latest WHO study). IMO, this new GS450h allows those in other countries to enjoy V8 torque without guilt and without harm to the environment and to the future generation.
Diesels in Europe command a price premium over comparative petrol models with similar hp with the only advantage being lower fuel costs and increased low-end torque. The GS450h is Lexus equivalent of the Euro's diesels except without the carcinogenic diesel emissions so it similarly commands a premium over the GS V6. Lexus is thinking globally and not just for US consumers...
According to most real life reviews the new GS450h's torque is described as plenty and adequate. Apparently, the 4GS engineers tuned the hybrid drivetrain to deliver V8 levels of torque sensation and ease of lane changing and overtaking is similar to current V8s.
Like Rominl said in the past, too many of you(including me) are guilty of magazine racing without actually testing the car for ourselves. From the reviews I read (and I posted a video review in the 4GS sub-forum), the GS450h performs like a V8 for real-life road manoeuvers, delivers a connected road feel, all while delivering the carbon footprint of a 4 cylinder and with no harmful diesel emissions to boot.
The truth is that most countries have prohibitive fuel costs that make V8s unfeasible and the big unspoken secret is that current diesels who meet Euro 5 standards may still have harmful emissions other than carbon dioxide that are carcinogenic (latest WHO study). IMO, this new GS450h allows those in other countries to enjoy V8 torque without guilt and without harm to the environment and to the future generation.
Diesels in Europe command a price premium over comparative petrol models with similar hp with the only advantage being lower fuel costs and increased low-end torque. The GS450h is Lexus equivalent of the Euro's diesels except without the carcinogenic diesel emissions so it similarly commands a premium over the GS V6. Lexus is thinking globally and not just for US consumers...
that's why i think it's going to be very interesting to see how lexus market this (gsh) and how the sales reflect what they are targeting. one thing for sure v8 market is very small, bmw and mb aren't selling much at all. so it's one of those market that i think are there just to show "we can" and buyers should expect to pay top dollars.maybe with the gsh lexus can eventually find the best medium on power vs gas mileage vs cost, that's remained to be seen. for sure it's going to be compromise of things. the gsh won't be as fast as competitors v8 today, it won't be as gas efficient as esh, and it won't be as cheap as esh. but hey, just like all season tires that suck in most criteria, but somehow they are selling just fine
06-27-12, 02:52 PM
#56
pretty well said. that's why i think it's going to be very interesting to see how lexus market this (gsh) and how the sales reflect what they are targeting. one thing for sure v8 market is very small, bmw and mb aren't selling much at all. so it's one of those market that i think are there just to show "we can" and buyers should expect to pay top dollars.
maybe with the gsh lexus can eventually find the best medium on power vs gas mileage vs cost, that's remained to be seen. for sure it's going to be compromise of things. the gsh won't be as fast as competitors v8 today, it won't be as gas efficient as esh, and it won't be as cheap as esh. but hey, just like all season tires that suck in most criteria, but somehow they are selling just fine
that's why i think it's going to be very interesting to see how lexus market this (gsh) and how the sales reflect what they are targeting. one thing for sure v8 market is very small, bmw and mb aren't selling much at all. so it's one of those market that i think are there just to show "we can" and buyers should expect to pay top dollars.maybe with the gsh lexus can eventually find the best medium on power vs gas mileage vs cost, that's remained to be seen. for sure it's going to be compromise of things. the gsh won't be as fast as competitors v8 today, it won't be as gas efficient as esh, and it won't be as cheap as esh. but hey, just like all season tires that suck in most criteria, but somehow they are selling just fine
I dont get it.
So 535i/550i suck big time because they are not as efficient or cheap as 520d? Because thats what you guys are saying.
p.s. Personally I would get upcoming small hybrid GS, because I dont need 350hp... But at the same time, If I said how GS300h is much better than GS450h because it gets better mpg and it is cheaper, i would laugh at my self.
Maybe it is because I live in Europe and I understand why people buy 530d, despite the existence of 520d.
06-27-12, 02:59 PM
#57
p.s. I know it is "American" to have only 1-2 engines in lineup, but I believe that hybrid sales wont ever take off outside Japan and America, without Toyota having more options. Toyota cars in Europe have sometimes 4 different engines, for instance Avensis has 2 petrols, 3 diesels, Yaris has 2 petrols, 1 diesel and 1 hybrid, etc, etc.
They need to give us options - why not 200hp Prius or CTh?
They need to give us options - why not 200hp Prius or CTh?
06-27-12, 03:17 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Lexus simply has dropped the ball with advertising/marketing the 450h. I understand its a limited production model but its really concerning they drop the V-8 then don't really push the 450h which they bill as a replacement. Quite odd and to me it shows internal fighting on what they want.
I mean 338hp and 31 mpg average? Only the M35h can come close to that.
I mean 338hp and 31 mpg average? Only the M35h can come close to that.
06-27-12, 08:05 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Lexus simply has dropped the ball with advertising/marketing the 450h. I understand its a limited production model but its really concerning they drop the V-8 then don't really push the 450h which they bill as a replacement. Quite odd and to me it shows internal fighting on what they want.
I mean 338hp and 31 mpg average? Only the M35h can come close to that.
I mean 338hp and 31 mpg average? Only the M35h can come close to that.
it's all rx and es ads.without promotion, lexus has a self-fulfilling prophecy of low 450h sales.
