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BMW & Toyota to Develop a Sports Car & Extend Technology (update pg. 2)

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Old 04-16-12, 04:21 PM   #1
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Default BMW & Toyota to Develop a Sports Car & Extend Technology (update pg. 2)

Parterships and sharing are the future.


Toyota turns to BMW to power European rebound against VW

Toyota Motor Corp., which was overtaken by Volkswagen AG in sales last year, is striking back on the German automaker's home turf.

Toyota is rolling out Europe's first hybrid subcompact and the image-boosting GT86 sports coupe this year in a bid to claw back market share in the region after sales plunged 41 percent since 2007. The Toyota City, Japan-based company will further bolster its European business by outfitting its vehicles with diesel engines from Bayerische Motoren Werke AG from 2014.

"It's unacceptable for Toyota to be at this volume level in Europe," Didier Leroy, Toyota's European chief, said in an interview. By cutting management layers to streamline decision- making over the past two years, "we made ourselves much leaner, much more agile. We strongly went for the fighting spirit in everything we do."

That shakeup is likely to pay off this year, with Toyota predicting its first profit in Europe in five years. Market share in the European Union is set to rise to 6.6 percent from 5.7 percent last year, while the VW brand slips to 18.2 percent from 18.5 percent, according to data from IHS Automotive. By making gains in Europe, Toyota aims to halt VW's march to become the world's biggest automaker, overtaking General Motors Co.

Toyota lost the top spot last year when disruptions caused by the earthquake in Japan and the lingering effects of global recalls in 2009 and 2010 caused the maker of the Camry sedan to drop to third as VW leapfrogged Toyota to become number two.

Hybrid Yaris

"The real issue for Toyota is winning back customers," said Jonathon Poskitt, head of European sales forecasting at LMC Automotive in Oxford, England. "Toyota really needs to refocus on the requirements of what are sophisticated European customers that already have a great choice in new vehicles."

The hybrid version of the Yaris, which competes with VW's Polo, is part of the campaign. Production on the gas-electric subcompact started at Toyota's factory in Valenciennes in northern France earlier this week after an investment of 25 million euros ($33 million). The hybrid variant of Toyota's European best-seller gets the equivalent of 76 miles per gallon.

On the other end of the scale is the GT86, which accelerates to 100 kilometers (62 miles) per hour in as little as 8.2 seconds and sports a low-slung grill and dual exhaust pipes. The aggressive design is meant to challenge VW's Scirocco and PSA Peugeot Citroen's RCZ and pep up Toyota's image.

The brand's current models "haven't seemed to capture the customer's imagination," said Ian Fletcher, an analyst at IHS Automotive in London. The GT86 "might be a car that brings people back into the showroom."

That's just what Fredrik Bjorklund, who heads a Stockholm- based chain of Toyota stores, is yearning for, when the car goes on sale later this year. It hits German showrooms in September.

"We're hoping it will be a fantastic image creator for us," Bjorklund said. "Toyota has received criticism for its non-thrilling design, and we must get people to think it's fun with Toyota so that when your neighbor sees it he gets interested."

Still, with hybrids lacking widespread acceptance in Europe and Toyota targeting a modest 15,000 GT86 deliveries in the region, the Japanese carmaker will need to do more to reach its goal of selling over one million cars in Europe, Russia, Turkey and Israel, 20 percent more than its 2012 target of 835,000.

Facing tough competition and lacking in-demand technology, Toyota's performance in Europe has declined faster than elsewhere. In 2007, when Toyota's sales reached a record of 9.37 million vehicles, deliveries in Europe accounted for 13 percent of the total. Last year, Europe accounted for 10 percent of Toyota's 7.95 million auto sales globally.

"Toyota's strengths are in hybrid cars, and this has led to strong sales in the United States and markets that are sensitive to increases in gasoline prices," Satoru Takada, a Tokyo-based analyst at Toward the Infinite World Inc. "Europe is already dominated by the German carmakers, because diesel cars are popular. Eastern Europe is one area where Toyota may be successful, but every company is targeting those markets, so competition there will be tough for Toyota too."

A lift in Europe could come when BMW starts delivering diesel engines to Toyota in two years. Diesel, which is taxed less than gasoline in many European countries, fueled nearly half of the new cars sold in Germany last year. BMW agreed to supply Toyota with diesel engines in Europe as part of a cooperation pact on research into next-generation batteries.

Toyota's thrust in Europe comes as the Wolfsburg, Germany- based manufacturer makes a push in the U.S., where the Japanese company outsold VW five-to-one in 2011. Volkswagen last year opened a $1 billion factory in Tennessee to build as many as 150,000 Passat sedans a year.

Toyota's improved finances in Europe are in stark contrast to some rivals. Ford Motor Co. predicted a loss of as much as $600 million in Europe in 2012. GM lost $747 million in Europe last year and is considering further cost cuts.

Even with the improvements, gaining and holding onto customers in VW's home region will remain a challenge. At the Toyota dealership in Stockholm, Johan Lindgren, a 31-year old biochemist who owns a RAV4 sports-utility vehicle, is keeping his eyes open to replace his 2001 Yaris Verso.

"My Toyotas have been very reliable and practical," he said. "The design has improved lately but is still a bit boring. For the next one, I'll consider Toyota and other brands."

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...und-against-VW
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Old 04-17-12, 12:49 AM   #2
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interesting. BMW does have more diesel experience than Toyota and I wonder if Europeans will be more likely to buy a Lexus/Toyota if it has a German motor in it.
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Old 04-17-12, 04:19 AM   #3
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I think Europeans would be more willing to buy a Toyota/Lexus if it had more efficient powerplants. The success of the CT there is telling. Diesel engines have always been popular there. Toyota needs more development of them... this is the next best thing.
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Old 04-17-12, 06:04 AM   #4
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I think Europeans would be more willing to buy a Toyota/Lexus if it had more efficient powerplants. The success of the CT there is telling. Diesel engines have always been popular there. Toyota needs more development of them... this is the next best thing.
based on this agreement, toyota is shutting down their diesel engine development and concentrating on hybrids only... so they made deal with BMW which has small (from PSA) and big diesels to cover their tracks.

On Toyota only.
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Old 04-17-12, 06:08 AM   #5
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interesting. BMW does have more diesel experience than Toyota and I wonder if Europeans will be more likely to buy a Lexus/Toyota if it has a German motor in it.
deal is for Toyota only , not for Lexus... small diesels that go into BMWs are actually product of Peugeot/Citroen/BMW alliance.

So i dont think there will be any perception change, Toyota diesels are well regarded as it is.

Main idea here is that Euro6 emission laws are coming, and Toyota will have all their cars with hybrids by 2014 apparently so they estimate low sales of their diesels, low enough for them to not develop next generation.

For instance, new Yaris hybrid is priced the same or less than Yaris diesel, while having better technology and consumption.

They will probably do next generation of truck diesels for their emerging markets though.
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Old 04-17-12, 06:45 AM   #6
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I read something similar some months ago. Similarly Toyota is helping BMW out with their hybrid tech. I'd love to see a turbo-diesel hybrid car/crossover. Unfortunately this is for Europe
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Old 04-17-12, 07:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
based on this agreement, toyota is shutting down their diesel engine development and concentrating on hybrids only... so they made deal with BMW which has small (from PSA) and big diesels to cover their tracks.

On Toyota only.
this would benefit Toyota as they shift their focus and R&D on Hybrid Tech, and BMW deisel powertrains should still be reliable. I see this as a short term partnership though.
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Old 04-17-12, 09:31 AM   #8
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this would benefit Toyota as they shift their focus and R&D on Hybrid Tech, and BMW deisel powertrains should still be reliable. I see this as a short term partnership though.
indeed... seems to cover their bases basically, just so they dont lose market share.
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Old 04-17-12, 10:39 AM   #9
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I read something similar some months ago. Similarly Toyota is helping BMW out with their hybrid tech. I'd love to see a turbo-diesel hybrid car/crossover. Unfortunately this is for Europe
You know, why haven't we seen this in the states? Diesels in general are more fuel efficient than gas engines. Wouldn't a similarly sized diesel in your conventional hybrid produce a better fuel economy from the start and more power than it's gas counterpart? Pair that with a hybrid system, and it would be an MPG star? Ie Prius Diesel Hybrid?
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Old 04-17-12, 12:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spwolf View Post
based on this agreement, toyota is shutting down their diesel engine development and concentrating on hybrids only... so they made deal with BMW which has small (from PSA) and big diesels to cover their tracks.

On Toyota only.
Well, then with diesel R&D stopping, this is the next best thing, until Toyota offers more vehicles with hybrid tech. But either way, they need to offer more fuel efficient engine options in Europe.

The combination of a diesel engine with hybrid tech seems like a no brainer in terms of efficiency to me. But then again I'm not an engineer.
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Old 04-17-12, 12:26 PM   #11
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Some thoughts on diesel-electric hybrid vehicles…

Much higher purchase price: Diesel-powered cars are expensive and so are hybrid electric cars. Adding the two would make for a very expensive car that may have just priced itself out of the market, at least in North America.

Longer pay-off period: Even using less gasoline, it takes years to pay off the higher purchase price of the gasoline-electric hybrid car. The higher cost of diesel fuel in North America added to the even higher purchase price of a diesel-electric hybrid car would make the economics of such a car even harder to justify.

Motor and diesel engine not complementary: Electric motor assist may be better suited to gasoline engines than diesel engines (at least in cars). An electric motor has high torque, practically from 0 rpm, which drops off at higher rpm. A diesel engine also has high torque at low rpm that drops off at higher rpm. A gasoline engine, however, has low torque at low rpm that climbs to its peak at higher rpm. An electric motor and gasoline engine are complementary: high torque at low rpm from the motor where the gasoline engine is weak, and high torque at higher rpm from the gasoline engine where the electric motor is weak. With an electric motor assisting a diesel engine, however, you get high torque at low rpm from both the motor and the engine, and low torque at higher rpm from both the motor and engine – that is not complementary.

Through-the-Road Hybrid: Making a simple (and relatively cheap) “through-the-road” hybrid car like what Peugeot-Citroën has done with its HYbrid4 system (taking a conventional diesel-powered FWD car and adding a totally separate electric motor for the rear axle) is much easier than what Toyota has done with its Hybrid Synergy Drive, trying to complement an internal combustion engine with an electric motor.

Diesel-electric serial hybrid: A diesel-electric hybrid would likely work better in a serial-hybrid setup, as in a hybrid locomotive or as in some diesel-electric hybrid buses. In the serial hybrid, the engine acts only as a generator to produce electricity to top up a battery which feeds the electric motor. You need a large-capacity battery, otherwise the diesel generator is running a high percentage of the time. This may not be economical for cars but may be for larger vehicles, such as buses and locomotives.
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Old 04-17-12, 12:43 PM   #12
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BMW actually bought diesel engines from Toyota for their first-gen MINI diesels until 2008, when they switched to PSA. How times have changed...
http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/05/...iesel_in_2008/
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Old 06-25-12, 10:02 AM   #13
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Toyota Motor Corp. plans to supply BMW AG with hybrid drivetrain systems and hydrogen fuel cell technology, as the two partners deepen a green car development tie up they forged last December, media reports say.

Under the plan, Toyota would achieve greater economies of scale for its gasoline-electric hybrid systems and win a trophy customer in the form of a German luxury carmaker.

Specifics of the agreement were reported Monday by Japan's Nikkei business daily and over the weekend by Germany's Der Spiegel magazine.

Toyota President Akio Toyoda and BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer will make an announcement this week, the Nikkei reported without saying how it learned the news.

Toyota spokesman Joichi Tachikawa said the company could not comment on cooperation beyond what was announced in December and March.

In December, the companies said BMW would supply Toyota with small-displacement clean-diesel engines to use in vehicles sold in Europe starting in 2014. In return, Toyota would work with BMW to produce next-generation lithium ion batteries for hybrid vehicles.

They signed the joint battery-research agreement in March. At the time, both companies left open the door for further collaboration.

"We've announced that we will have r&d cooperation with BMW on environmental technologies," Tachikawa said. "There are many possibilities with many technologies."

Toyota is looking for ways to achieve higher volumes to bring down production costs of its hybrid system, made famous by its deployment in the Toyota Prius, the world's best selling gasoline-electric car. It has already signed similar hybrid development or supply deals with Mazda Motor Corp., Subaru and Ford Motor Co.

Fuel-cell technology

Under the upcoming deal, Toyota will also supply BMW with hydrogen fuel cell technologies, the Nikkei said. That would be the 1st time Toyota has supplied its fuel cell technology to a rival automaker, the newspaper added.

Toyota plans to start selling a new fuel cell vehicle in 2015.
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Old 06-25-12, 10:17 AM   #14
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this was to be expected, but I am surprised at fuel cells, as BMW has had hydrogen project as long as Toyota. It seems that Toyota is at much more advanced stage I guess.
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Old 06-27-12, 03:21 AM   #15
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That is a big move!
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Old 06-27-12, 03:21 AM
 
 
 
 
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