mmarshall

Thanks. glad you enjoyed it.

Actually, it's not quite that simple. The Insight, true, does have some shortcomings, such as a bumpy, less-refined, lower-MPG hybrid drivetrain than the Prius, and the rear seat is a joke. But it does have excellent build-quality and the usual Honda thoroughness in Swiss-Watch assembly-precision. It is also extremely reliable.

mmarshall

Thanks.

Like I told pvmike1, the answer to the space-problem might be the Prius v wagon...but it costs more, and you give up some MPG and (IMO) some interior-ergonomics.

LeX2K

Your tailpipe emissions would be drastically reduced, if you care about that kind of thing.
Which might work against it, the car lasts forever and you don't even want it. The bottom line is Honda has made a car people just don't feel like buying, even considering its low price for a hybrid.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

no. no i don't.

wait, isn't your province prosperous because of shale oil production? one of the most polluting industries in the world? wait, i don't care about that either - it's awesome!

whoster

Fossil Fuels!

LeX2K

United States carbon emissions (2010) - 5,492,170
Canada carbon emissions (2010) - 518,475

Canada accounts for about 1% of global emissions. Canada is the #1 supplier of oil to the United States. Yes oil sands production is polluting but getting better every year, and you should care about pollution, nothing awesome about it.

mmarshall

Yes, for sure......I'm not trying to imply anything different. It's obvious that the Insight has not been a hit.....I made that clear in the review. And it's not very high on the list of cars I'd want as a daily-driver, either. But my point was that, nevertheless, it does have some good features,

mmarshall

Polls and market-research has shown that, with small hybrids, low emissions is sometimes even more of a purchase-factor than high gas-mileage, even with expensive fuel. A lot of people buy small hybrids not only to save gas money but to make an environmental-statement as well. That explains the popularity of the Prius among environmentalists and those who don't care much for cars and driving, period.......when not in their Priuses, they spend a lot of their time on bicycles and low-powered motor-scooters..

spwolf

mmarshal, i think some people want that to be true, and it was true at the start at prius sales 10+ years ago, but i think vast majority of customers are motivated by $$$. This is why toyota will sell over 1,000,000 hybrids this year alone and why GM and Nissan will have tough luck selling their Volts/Leafs.

mmarshall

Emissions, though, even today, are a key reason why a lot of buyers choose hybrids over diesels. That may not be the case where you are in Europe (where dozens of small diesels are available), but it generally applies here in the U.S. Small diesels such as VW TDI (the only small diesel widely-offered here) can sometimes equal or exceed the same EPA Highway fuel-mileage as hybrids. But even with new advances in diesel-engine technology, low-sulfur fuels, and urea-solutions, diesels simply cannot equal hybrids in the emissions-department.

As far as the Volt goes, I agree that it is significantly overpriced for what you get...not to mention what, IMO, is its lousy ergonomics (I've made many comments in CAR CHAT about that). I haven't had a chance to drive a Leaf yet (though I've looked them over in car shows), so I can't say whether I think it is overpriced or not. It does, of course, run several thousand dollars less than the Volt....but also has less-complexity in its production, without a gas engine.

I8ABMR

these new versions are going to be flying off dealer lots

mmarshall

That's one of the things I'm concerned about with this car......supply-and-demand. That often means price-gouging.

spwolf

i understand what you are saying, but if the price of diesel at station was equal or lesser than petrol and if cost of diesel engines was a bit lower in US, and more available in various different cars, you would see same penetration of diesels as in Europe.

Europeans think BMW is 2nd biggest ECO brand in Europe (#1 is Toyota) as by recent survey but reality is that BMW still has no NOx cat in any of their cars... what people see is low fuel consumption.

and i would say when it comes to emissions, most of the europe is more like San Fran than Austin. And yet, Hybrids sell in large numbers only when incentivized with tax cuts, for instance in small Netherland, CT200h is one of the best selling cars due to tax cuts, and that country alone will be likely 15-20% of all Lexus sales in EU, if they can produce enough CT200h's... and it is small country with generally small car sales.

mmarshall

The availability of not only diesel engines in America, but of diesel-fuel itself, is sometimes an issue. Apart from truck-stops, It is only sold at certain gas-stations, and is generally not as widely available as gasoline....and when it is, as you note, price can be a problem.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

global human emissions are trivial. and vast %age is industrial / power so my explorer vs. prius is irrelevant.




problem is, their math is faulty, and typically a hybrid will cost a person money except under specific circumstances (like heavy city use). not to mention the trade-off of loss of cargo room, gutless power trains. the rx450h is probably the best 'execution' of this though, although the cost premium is still high.