This is the 2013 Ford Fusion
01-09-12, 12:00 AM
#46
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I can appreciate Ford's efforts here without bringing up the Camry or anything else. Ford continues to show they are focused and have it together. We should commend them for improving from the past Fusion. This vehicle looks very impressive so far.
It "killing" the Camry and "the Camry sucks" is just the usual, played, old, tired Toyota/Camry bashing that happens all over the internet and Toyota laughs all the way to the bank. The Camry is not a bad car at all, it just isn't as stylish as others, its main drawback to detractors. Clearly CONSUMERS, you know, those that actually purchase vehicles in this class, feel the styling is okay and other merits outshine the CAMRY KILLING COMPETITION" since the 6/7 year old Camry beat the crap out of all these new competitors this year and the new Camry is selling even better. I don't want to hear the "oh just b/c it sells doesn't mean its good" argument b/c then that means the E class/5 series must have that argument used against them. The cars are popular for a reason, they remain seen as the STANDARD by consumers, not the INTERNETZ.
It "killing" the Camry and "the Camry sucks" is just the usual, played, old, tired Toyota/Camry bashing that happens all over the internet and Toyota laughs all the way to the bank. The Camry is not a bad car at all, it just isn't as stylish as others, its main drawback to detractors. Clearly CONSUMERS, you know, those that actually purchase vehicles in this class, feel the styling is okay and other merits outshine the CAMRY KILLING COMPETITION" since the 6/7 year old Camry beat the crap out of all these new competitors this year and the new Camry is selling even better. I don't want to hear the "oh just b/c it sells doesn't mean its good" argument b/c then that means the E class/5 series must have that argument used against them. The cars are popular for a reason, they remain seen as the STANDARD by consumers, not the INTERNETZ.
You know what else sells well? Big Macs and Bieber mp3's, Does that make them great?
Last edited by bad co; 01-09-12 at 12:19 AM.
01-09-12, 03:46 AM
#47
but he is kind of correct... whenever new american car gets introduced, it is considered as second coming of JC but few years later nobody cares anymore about that car. Fiesta and Focus were hailed as Toyota beaters, but what did they do in the market? Nothing really. Same as Fusion. Heck, their best performing vehicle after F-150 is.... Escape... old and tired model, that doesnt look anything like these models.
At the end, sales of passanger cars at Ford are down (16% in December), despite media frenzy about Toyota beating Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and in reality, what they sell the most is trucks and suvs. 75% of their sales are trucks/suvs. What exactly changed? Nothing.
01-09-12, 06:28 AM
#48
When the Camry is dolled-up in higher end trims, it looks decent, but I still say that the Sonata is the only one with an exterior that's actually appealing.
01-09-12, 06:39 AM
#49
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The tired double standard is just that. Lame and tired. Its fine when other companies sell like hotcakes or are #1 and it shows their dominance. When Toyota/Lexus dominates, its b/c "OMG BIG MACS SELL TOO". Everyone can see this double standard.
01-09-12, 07:22 AM
#51
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Sounds like when the competition can't beat a Lexus/Toyota, we make excuses.
Now its "different approach". When the LS doesn't do well "oh it just isn't that good".
so back to fusion - their last gen is a bit frumpy, but slightly different from your typical sedan, and now they're making this new one kind of like a smaller taurus. will it work? i don't know.
And Camry/Lexus/Toyota detractors will make every attempt to insult and jab the Camry/Lexus on a Lexus forum in a thread about the FUSION. Where is the comment "omg too much silver plastic" like in the LX 570?
Sorry, if you think people that hate cars hate the CAmry, well then the whole segment hates cars.
i'd say this fusion is trying to put a dent in sonata's gains (with flashy styling) while aligning with ford's other styling and image.
01-09-12, 07:57 AM
#53
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01-09-12, 08:46 AM
#55
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You clearly missed the bottom of my post in your haste, an anti Toyota/Lexus Germnan sympathizer poster on this forum, to try to call me out. Yes, I like Toyota, Lexus vehicles sue me. I also am an auto enthusiast. No where in here have I said anything bad about the Fusion. It is beyond tired to see people bash the Camry whenever possible.
The tired double standard is just that. Lame and tired. Its fine when other companies sell like hotcakes or are #1 and it shows their dominance. When Toyota/Lexus dominates, its b/c "OMG BIG MACS SELL TOO". Everyone can see this double standard.
The tired double standard is just that. Lame and tired. Its fine when other companies sell like hotcakes or are #1 and it shows their dominance. When Toyota/Lexus dominates, its b/c "OMG BIG MACS SELL TOO". Everyone can see this double standard.
01-09-12, 08:48 AM
#56
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01-09-12, 09:08 AM
#57
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the initial article referred to the car as "ford's new Camry-fighter".
no, my comments were about marketing and marketshare in general. the f-150 is very good for example, and handily outsells the chevy silverado and others, but is the f-150 much better or better at all? debatable, but gm, chrysler and most recently toyota have tried to dethrone it and can't. it's just hard when a model has such a loyal following. toyota would have to ruin the camry for it to die off. not sure to what extent the tsunami has affected availability and accord sales, but it seems to me a lack of engine innovation and other neglect over many years is slowly killing off the accord but they still sell a ton of 'em.
so yes, you need a different approach over many years, to dethrone a leader. the original LS was clearly a DIFFERENT APPROACH (unbelievable quality, quiet ride, materials, excellent engine, etc., at a great price) combined with an EXCELLENT marketing campagne (who can forget the tower of champagne classes!). on a related note, you and i agree on the equus, it won't make a dent because it's not different enough.
so back to fusion - their last gen is a bit frumpy, but slightly different from your typical sedan, and now they're making this new one kind of like a smaller taurus. will it work? i don't know.
newsflash: i personally don't like the looks of the new camry or the lx570. but i get that toyota at least addressed some of the shortcomings of the prior camry and that it will sell well and be hard to dethrone. good job toyota!
not really... again, differentiation to gain marketshare even if one can't take the top spot. mazda for example, knowing it's massively outgunned by competition, goes for a 'sporty' or playful angle with its designs and engineering. subaru goes for awd and quirky. it's all about marketing warfare. this is the book that started it all: http://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Warf.../dp/0070527261
i'd say this fusion is trying to put a dent in sonata's gains (with flashy styling) while aligning with ford's other styling and image.
no, my comments were about marketing and marketshare in general. the f-150 is very good for example, and handily outsells the chevy silverado and others, but is the f-150 much better or better at all? debatable, but gm, chrysler and most recently toyota have tried to dethrone it and can't. it's just hard when a model has such a loyal following. toyota would have to ruin the camry for it to die off. not sure to what extent the tsunami has affected availability and accord sales, but it seems to me a lack of engine innovation and other neglect over many years is slowly killing off the accord but they still sell a ton of 'em.
so yes, you need a different approach over many years, to dethrone a leader. the original LS was clearly a DIFFERENT APPROACH (unbelievable quality, quiet ride, materials, excellent engine, etc., at a great price) combined with an EXCELLENT marketing campagne (who can forget the tower of champagne classes!). on a related note, you and i agree on the equus, it won't make a dent because it's not different enough.
so back to fusion - their last gen is a bit frumpy, but slightly different from your typical sedan, and now they're making this new one kind of like a smaller taurus. will it work? i don't know.
newsflash: i personally don't like the looks of the new camry or the lx570. but i get that toyota at least addressed some of the shortcomings of the prior camry and that it will sell well and be hard to dethrone. good job toyota!
not really... again, differentiation to gain marketshare even if one can't take the top spot. mazda for example, knowing it's massively outgunned by competition, goes for a 'sporty' or playful angle with its designs and engineering. subaru goes for awd and quirky. it's all about marketing warfare. this is the book that started it all: http://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Warf.../dp/0070527261
i'd say this fusion is trying to put a dent in sonata's gains (with flashy styling) while aligning with ford's other styling and image.
Its still funny the Camry is made in America and the Fusion is made in Mexico. Domesitc Camry is Domestic.
So what your trying to sat is not to okay for me to bring it up but its okay for you, got it. I like some Lexus Cars. I've grown fond of the IS-F, there a twin turbo one around my part of town that is a real nice car. I'm also looking at Sequoias /Land Cruisers/ LX470's as a possible DD. I do like some products
But I digress, enjoy this Fusion thread crapping on the Camry on a Lexus forum where there are tons of Camry owners. I've said my 2 cents.
01-09-12, 09:19 AM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
They OWNED Aston for many years. 
A far bigger hit to Aston's image, IMO, is them selling the Cygnet........a redone Scion iQ minicar. Not that there's necesarily anything wrong with the iQ (I haven't had a chance to review one, but it is supposedly much better than its Smart-for-Two competition). But you don't expect a maker of super-expensive sport/GT-cars to be producing something in this size/price-class.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-09-12 at 09:25 AM.
01-09-12, 09:39 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
The Camry kicked *** old, it kicked *** new. For 11 years we have seen cars come out "OMG CAMRY SUCKS THIS WILL KILL IT" and it doesn't happen except maybe a review or two.
ever built (as was also the case for the early-90s Acccord). Still one cannot argue that Camry sales, over the years, remained on top.
Its still funny the Camry is made in America and the Fusion is made in Mexico. Domesitc Camry is Domestic.
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
We are to be discussing the Ford FUSION here.
Unfortunately, according to Consumer Reports, the previous AWD versions of the Fusion/Milan/MKZ did not quite have the stellar reliability of the FWD (or hybrid) versions. Few other manufacturers seem to be able to do the kind of reliability in AWD vehicles that Subaru, Toyota, Honda, and (to a lesser extent) recent Kias and Hyundais have done.
Last edited by mmarshall; 01-09-12 at 09:52 AM.
01-09-12, 10:37 AM
#60
Lexus Test Driver
The new Fusion is damn good looking. A little dissappointed that they don't even have a V6 option. I can see having only a 4 banger in the Focus or the Fiesta, but aside from the Taurus, this is currently Ford's biggest sedan. Many of us longtime Ford drivers are accustomed to larger engines with more grunt. It almost seems like Ford is trying to cater to an entirely new market and almost forget their old customer base.
As far as personal choice, I would take the Fusion over a Camry any day. Sorry to 1SICKLEX if I don't worship the Camry. I'm not going to give it up
