Saving Lexus Toyota's Luxury Brand Needs an Overhaul-Motor Trend
11-04-11, 04:23 PM
#47
The styling on the current IS is dry. Its barely distinguishable from any other car on the road, and it doesn't offer anything better than its competition other than reliability. The rear of the car looks too carolla-ish (as opposed to the first IS which had a rear end that was pretty revolutionary at the time) and the shape in general looks like an overweight melted version of the first IS without the style. Heck, the hood bulge from the first IS disappeared completely and that was one of the distinguishing features of the car.
Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
2006 IS (especially F-Sport) is probably the best overall styled lexus in history. It has stayed fresh for 6 years, only Lexus product in history to be able to say so - and sales prove it. Where LS and GS sales drop considerably as they age, IS sales are doing well in their 6th year.
In fact, I think IS is what they should look at on how to sell their cars in the future, with IS, IS F-Sport, IS-F, IS-C introductions and complete management of several facelifts and constant improvements.
I think Lexus realizes this and thats why GS looks the way it looks.
It is only IMHO but sales prove it completely.
11-04-11, 04:45 PM
#48
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The styling on the current IS is dry. Its barely distinguishable from any other car on the road, and it doesn't offer anything better than its competition other than reliability. The rear of the car looks too carolla-ish (as opposed to the first IS which had a rear end that was pretty revolutionary at the time) and the shape in general looks like an overweight melted version of the first IS without the style. Heck, the hood bulge from the first IS disappeared completely and that was one of the distinguishing features of the car.
Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
The 2JZ was doomed stop holding on to the past. It got terrible MPG and average acceleration when it was not boosted. The Lexus 3.5 in the IS gets pretty much tops in acceleration and MPG. The previous IS was NOT roomier and sure as hell didn't have more luxury.
The IS has been a huge huge success for Lexus. I don't think you came across as a troll just not aware of the IS series in general. You are entitled to your opinion but few share it.
The IS was the right direction for Lexus, 100% right.
11-04-11, 06:08 PM
#49
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I agree that the current IS styling hasn't aged badly. I also agree the first IS had too little interior room and not enough luxury.
I am aware of the IS series, but there isn't much to know considering there have only been two models and not very many variations.
But if the new GS and the CT are any indication, the next IS should be quite good and I'm interesting to see it
I am aware of the IS series, but there isn't much to know considering there have only been two models and not very many variations.
But if the new GS and the CT are any indication, the next IS should be quite good and I'm interesting to see it
11-04-11, 06:22 PM
#50
Lexus Champion
I agree that the current IS styling hasn't aged badly. I also agree the first IS had too little interior room and not enough luxury.
I am aware of the IS series, but there isn't much to know considering there have only been two models and not very many variations.
But if the new GS and the CT are any indication, the next IS should be quite good and I'm interesting to see it
I am aware of the IS series, but there isn't much to know considering there have only been two models and not very many variations.
But if the new GS and the CT are any indication, the next IS should be quite good and I'm interesting to see it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kfl8Yerd6Q&hd=1
Seriously I think it's one of the best looking cars in its segment, amazing as it's going on 6 years. It looks very premium and handsome. The body looks newer than both the A4 and C-class and those were launched in 2008.
11-04-11, 07:04 PM
#51
executive matchup
yes, i think there was a study about that. more bmw and mb are leased compared to lexus, but i was a bit surprised that the word "most" actually didn't apply. i put it as higher percentage.
from a brand ownership point of view, yup i can see how lexus is stronger. and especially from a financial point of view i think it's stronger to have people buying your car than leasing. i was a strong believer on that. but over the years i started to think, what's the effect of that in the end? a lot of lease returns. residual values, etc... but is it like no one is buying used / returned bmw and mb? nop, they are still being bought and driven day in day out.
on the other hand, does buying a luxury car makes it more "bling bling" than leasing one? that's also two folds and i don't think there is a winner. it creates more posers trying to test the limit and lease as much as they can. but at the same time a lot of the really rich, they change cars every 2-3 yrs anyway, and they love bmw / mb because they are so much "cheaper" than leasing lexus.
so after weighing all, does leasing vs buying make that much of a difference on luxury brands? possible, and i think it does. but to what extend? i am not sure if it's too significant.
from a brand ownership point of view, yup i can see how lexus is stronger. and especially from a financial point of view i think it's stronger to have people buying your car than leasing. i was a strong believer on that. but over the years i started to think, what's the effect of that in the end? a lot of lease returns. residual values, etc... but is it like no one is buying used / returned bmw and mb? nop, they are still being bought and driven day in day out.
on the other hand, does buying a luxury car makes it more "bling bling" than leasing one? that's also two folds and i don't think there is a winner. it creates more posers trying to test the limit and lease as much as they can. but at the same time a lot of the really rich, they change cars every 2-3 yrs anyway, and they love bmw / mb because they are so much "cheaper" than leasing lexus.
so after weighing all, does leasing vs buying make that much of a difference on luxury brands? possible, and i think it does. but to what extend? i am not sure if it's too significant.
11-04-11, 07:19 PM
#52
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Watch this and tell me it looks bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kfl8Yerd6Q&hd=1
Seriously I think it's one of the best looking cars in its segment, amazing as it's going on 6 years. It looks very premium and handsome. The body looks newer than both the A4 and C-class and those were launched in 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kfl8Yerd6Q&hd=1
Seriously I think it's one of the best looking cars in its segment, amazing as it's going on 6 years. It looks very premium and handsome. The body looks newer than both the A4 and C-class and those were launched in 2008.
11-04-11, 07:25 PM
#53
Lexus Champion
11-04-11, 09:15 PM
#54
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Whats funny is with all these issues, Lexus was what 2nd/3rd in sales last month and 8k units over Audi here. Meanwhile some other luxury brands haven't a clue.
Its not like Lexus just fell off the map. They are still competitively third and way ahead of 4th place in sales this year.
Sales in Europe are up 40%
Lexus is now #1/#2 in Japan
Lexus is 4th behind the Germans in China and far above the other luxury brands
Lexus continues to dominate quality/customer service surveys.
Lexus is still one of the 100 most valued brands in the world, worth more by value than some full line manufactures like Nissan.
Lexus has issues yes but the positives still far outweigh the negatives. Some brands would LOVE to be in these crappy Lexus shoes today
Its not like Lexus just fell off the map. They are still competitively third and way ahead of 4th place in sales this year.
Sales in Europe are up 40%
Lexus is now #1/#2 in Japan
Lexus is 4th behind the Germans in China and far above the other luxury brands
Lexus continues to dominate quality/customer service surveys.
Lexus is still one of the 100 most valued brands in the world, worth more by value than some full line manufactures like Nissan.
Lexus has issues yes but the positives still far outweigh the negatives. Some brands would LOVE to be in these crappy Lexus shoes today
11-04-11, 11:16 PM
#56
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Sorry, but there are not any positives to note here. Its a very dull design.
Its not an ugly design, but there isn't anything that stands out making it interesting. The entire profile of the car is one flat shape with droopy spots, and the rear of the car doesn't say luxury at all.
The front end of the car is fine but needs more detail, and the grill is too narrow for the width of the car making it look bloated.
The wheels fit well in the wheel wells and the track width looks right, but that has more to do with the engineering of the car than the design, and Toyota has flat out admitted recently they need to improve their styling of their cars.
Does this make it a bad car? No. But it does make it a car that has lots or room for improvement.
Its not an ugly design, but there isn't anything that stands out making it interesting. The entire profile of the car is one flat shape with droopy spots, and the rear of the car doesn't say luxury at all.
The front end of the car is fine but needs more detail, and the grill is too narrow for the width of the car making it look bloated.
The wheels fit well in the wheel wells and the track width looks right, but that has more to do with the engineering of the car than the design, and Toyota has flat out admitted recently they need to improve their styling of their cars.
Does this make it a bad car? No. But it does make it a car that has lots or room for improvement.
11-06-11, 12:45 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus is a bit player in the luxury sector. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi all sold at least 30 times more vehicles than Lexus in Europe last year.
11-06-11, 05:52 PM
#60
I think Lexus needs to get back to being an affordable luxury make, while at same time giving top of the market quality. The big seller for Lexus in beginning was that it was better in quality and reliability than the German makes, but at $10K or more less expensive. I mean we all here love Lexus, but Lexus is still not going to trump MB or BMW in snob factor. If you have a Lexus priced the same as a MB or BMW, most of the luxo snobs are going to go with MB, that's just the facts.
Much like what Hyundai is doing, by giving a fairly close product at much better prices, you are just going to get buyers. Think any Genesis would be sold if it was priced the same as a GS or E class? Don't think so.
I think Lexus is healthy and far from being dead, but at same time, a few more generations of bad vehicles and it could become critical and fast.
Much like what Hyundai is doing, by giving a fairly close product at much better prices, you are just going to get buyers. Think any Genesis would be sold if it was priced the same as a GS or E class? Don't think so.
I think Lexus is healthy and far from being dead, but at same time, a few more generations of bad vehicles and it could become critical and fast.