Saving Lexus Toyota's Luxury Brand Needs an Overhaul-Motor Trend
10-24-11, 09:08 PM
#33
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As an outsider and being somewhat mercenary (I have my favorite cars and brands but I am not a dyed-in-the-wool loyalist to any car brand) I think there is validity to the point that Lexus is not as high atop the heap as it once was. Most of this is due, however, to competitive makers getting better and in many ways offering superior product than Lexus. In some ways, one might even credit Lexus for upping the ante for the whole field. Thing is the field has risen and now Lexus has to really fight for position like it never has until now.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
10-24-11, 09:25 PM
#34
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^
All cars from all manufacturers are getting bloated and big, lets not single Lexus out. Nobody wants cramped cars with no suspension. How about 4GS that weights far less and current 5 series?
The first gen IS was a good car in its own right, but certainly not a very practical one, and nobody bought it. The current IS is damn near perfect, if only they made a coupe to complete the line up.
All cars from all manufacturers are getting bloated and big, lets not single Lexus out. Nobody wants cramped cars with no suspension. How about 4GS that weights far less and current 5 series?
The first gen IS was a good car in its own right, but certainly not a very practical one, and nobody bought it. The current IS is damn near perfect, if only they made a coupe to complete the line up.
As an outsider and being somewhat mercenary (I have my favorite cars and brands but I am not a dyed-in-the-wool loyalist to any car brand) I think there is validity to the point that Lexus is not as high atop the heap as it once was. Most of this is due, however, to competitive makers getting better and in many ways offering superior product than Lexus. In some ways, one might even credit Lexus for upping the ante for the whole field. Thing is the field has risen and now Lexus has to really fight for position like it never has until now.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
Whats funny is people having an issue with the Lexus enthusiast. Well get over it, yes we exist, just like the nutty Porsche, Ferrari, Honda, VW, BMW, etc etc enthusiast. Its funny b/c some of the supposed sportier brands don't have 1/ 2 as many modified/tracked cars and enthusiasts as "old man" Lexus.
I can easily give constructive criticsm b/c I've done it tons of times and so have many on this board, some more vocal than others
. No one is saying Lexus is perfect and without some challenges. What we are saying is present them properly, not with ANOTHER article on par with a picture book.1. The yen is killing the price advantage/value that Lexus and the Japanese once had.
2. The recalls/quality issue is something that hit at the worse time, when the competition was better than ever.
3. They need to expand the lineups beyond one 375k coupe and an ISc convertible.
4. Dealers need to get enthused about the F-sport program and stop wanting to only sell RX/ES/LS type vehicles.
5. They need to get the marketing/advertising back on point. They seem to be doing a better job now than in the recent past.
6. Consider making leasing more attractive to buyers.
7. More true global cars like the CT and less JDM only likes cars like the HS. The HS sells like hotcakes in Japan, its quirky JDM. We don't like that here.
The article fails to mention the success of the CT. The CT has proven what the Germans have failed at here for decades. That people would indeed buy a luxury 30k+ small hatch. This is a HUGE accomplishment that is overlooked by everyone and the media barely mentions it.
I remember when the articles said how Lexus was struggling in Japan. Lexus is now kicking all sorts of *** in Japan and/or at least is in 2nd place. I've yet to read one article saying "hey lets talk about what Lexus did right in Japan"
Rubbish....I wouldn't be surprised if these authors and mags would tell us Christopher Columbus discovered America....
10-25-11, 05:36 AM
#35
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As an outsider and being somewhat mercenary (I have my favorite cars and brands but I am not a dyed-in-the-wool loyalist to any car brand) I think there is validity to the point that Lexus is not as high atop the heap as it once was. Most of this is due, however, to competitive makers getting better and in many ways offering superior product than Lexus. In some ways, one might even credit Lexus for upping the ante for the whole field. Thing is the field has risen and now Lexus has to really fight for position like it never has until now.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
Whats funny is people having an issue with the Lexus enthusiast. Well get over it, yes we exist, just like the nutty Porsche, Ferrari, Honda, VW, BMW, etc etc enthusiast.
i doubt anyone has a problem with enthusiasts. for a variety of reasons well hashed out here, (even admitted to by T/L) Lexus is going through a rough patch, but with lots of product launches around the corner, it's also an exciting time. but i agree with speedlex that the competition has also really stepped up, making lexus feel a little less special than in the past. lexus DID change the entire luxury landscape though, no one can validly deny that! but as they say, what have you done lately?
Its funny b/c some of the supposed sportier brands don't have 1/ 2 as many modified/tracked cars and enthusiasts as "old man" Lexus.
No one is saying Lexus is perfect and without some challenges. What we are saying is present them properly, not with ANOTHER article on par with a picture book.
1. The yen is killing the price advantage/value that Lexus and the Japanese once had.
2. The recalls/quality issue is something that hit at the worse time, when the competition was better than ever.
3. They need to expand the lineups beyond one 375k coupe and an ISc convertible.
4. Dealers need to get enthused about the F-sport program and stop wanting to only sell RX/ES/LS type vehicles.
5. They need to get the marketing/advertising back on point. They seem to be doing a better job now than in the recent past.
6. Consider making leasing more attractive to buyers.
7. More true global cars like the CT and less JDM only likes cars like the HS. The HS sells like hotcakes in Japan, its quirky JDM. We don't like that here.
1. The yen is killing the price advantage/value that Lexus and the Japanese once had.
2. The recalls/quality issue is something that hit at the worse time, when the competition was better than ever.
3. They need to expand the lineups beyond one 375k coupe and an ISc convertible.
4. Dealers need to get enthused about the F-sport program and stop wanting to only sell RX/ES/LS type vehicles.
5. They need to get the marketing/advertising back on point. They seem to be doing a better job now than in the recent past.
6. Consider making leasing more attractive to buyers.
7. More true global cars like the CT and less JDM only likes cars like the HS. The HS sells like hotcakes in Japan, its quirky JDM. We don't like that here.
The article fails to mention the success of the CT. The CT has proven what the Germans have failed at here for decades. That people would indeed buy a luxury 30k+ small hatch. This is a HUGE accomplishment that is overlooked by everyone and the media barely mentions it.
I remember when the articles said how Lexus was struggling in Japan. Lexus is now kicking all sorts of *** in Japan and/or at least is in 2nd place. I've yet to read one article saying "hey lets talk about what Lexus did right in Japan"
10-25-11, 06:05 AM
#36
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BULL****! Does that mean MB, BMW and Audi needed saving when they were behind Lexus in the U.S.A.! Lexus will become 1st or 2nd again in the U.S. and is still a new company in Europe and growing. I work in the Middle East and I see a lot more Lexus especially in Saudi Arabia where I been working and living for the past 3 years!
I guess Lexus needs to pay MT some money to get better reviews! So much for an un-bias magazine!
I guess Lexus needs to pay MT some money to get better reviews! So much for an un-bias magazine!
10-25-11, 06:55 AM
#37
As an outsider and being somewhat mercenary (I have my favorite cars and brands but I am not a dyed-in-the-wool loyalist to any car brand) I think there is validity to the point that Lexus is not as high atop the heap as it once was. Most of this is due, however, to competitive makers getting better and in many ways offering superior product than Lexus. In some ways, one might even credit Lexus for upping the ante for the whole field. Thing is the field has risen and now Lexus has to really fight for position like it never has until now.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
The article is flawed and superficial and doesn't touch on the real issues Lexus faces. The theme is essentially correct but the writer doesn't know how to explain the case.
I understand passion for the brand but I think many folks should be open to objective evaluation of that brand. All this "I'll die a Lexus guy" sort of thing is really kind of... creepy. Don't tune out just because there is negative criticism leveled at Lexus. I'm sure Akio Toyoda takes these things very seriously himself. Lexus is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
New IS, GS, LS, ES and baby RX are coming within very short time period of less than 24 months.
If we look at 2012 GS450h, technologically, Lexus is at the top of the hill.
10-25-11, 08:42 AM
#38
BULL****! Does that mean MB, BMW and Audi needed saving when they were behind Lexus in the U.S.A.! Lexus will become 1st or 2nd again in the U.S. and is still a new company in Europe and growing. I work in the Middle East and I see a lot more Lexus especially in Saudi Arabia where I been working and living for the past 3 years!
I guess Lexus needs to pay MT some money to get better reviews! So much for an un-bias magazine!
I guess Lexus needs to pay MT some money to get better reviews! So much for an un-bias magazine!
i think it just happens to everyone
10-26-11, 05:52 PM
#39
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well, in early 2000s, you could read all kind of negative articles on audi and how they probably had no way of recovering. and then there was the time when bmw was so bad (i think almost got bought by mb? can't remember) and how people took at them.
i think it just happens to everyone
i think it just happens to everyone
10-26-11, 08:20 PM
#40
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I agree with the article. The only reason I'm even here is cause of the CT (a cool looking hybrid thats actually fun to drive? Thats the right direction to be heading).
The current IS pissed me off when it came out. The first-gen IS was my fav entry level lux sedan, but they made it bloated and boring. The GS, not something I would ever look at, nor the rest of the lineup, too many uninspiring automobiles. The LFA is a different story, again shows the right direction to go with something so unique.
IMO, Lexus took on too many of the qualities (boring appliances) of the main brand including their problems (recalls) but it does look to be headed the right direction now.
It IS soft... Sorry to burst some bubbles, but its not as great as it should be.
The current IS pissed me off when it came out. The first-gen IS was my fav entry level lux sedan, but they made it bloated and boring. The GS, not something I would ever look at, nor the rest of the lineup, too many uninspiring automobiles. The LFA is a different story, again shows the right direction to go with something so unique.
IMO, Lexus took on too many of the qualities (boring appliances) of the main brand including their problems (recalls) but it does look to be headed the right direction now.
It IS soft... Sorry to burst some bubbles, but its not as great as it should be.
I'll agree on the CTh, Lexus is definitely on the right track there. What does MB or BMW have to offer that's comparable?
10-26-11, 09:40 PM
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Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
11-04-11, 02:39 PM
#43
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The styling on the current IS is dry. Its barely distinguishable from any other car on the road, and it doesn't offer anything better than its competition other than reliability. The rear of the car looks too carolla-ish (as opposed to the first IS which had a rear end that was pretty revolutionary at the time) and the shape in general looks like an overweight melted version of the first IS without the style. Heck, the hood bulge from the first IS disappeared completely and that was one of the distinguishing features of the car.
Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
Plus, they went from the straight 6 which has been a engine Toyota has been associated with for over 40 years to the V6 making it just another run of the pack car. That really irked me. Does the V6 deliver good performance? Yes, the car in general went from the entry level sedan for the performance minded to the entry level sedan for the point-a to point-b ordinary driver. Did the previous IS need more interior room and more luxury? Yes, but this wasn't the way to do it.
In fact, the IS is pretty much the LAST car in the new entry level luxury sedan market I would buy sadly. I would never consider purchasing one, which is why it was so odd a CT ended up in the family (I thought it was an IS wagon or something, had no idea it existed until I saw it in person on display, Lexus wasn't even on the list of brands to look at) The IS-F I'd have to take a hard look at if I was buying a performance sedan, but ultimately would loose me due to the lack of a proper transmission.
Look, I'm not trying to be a troll here, but I am trying to give an honest perspective from a non-Lexus guy who wants to see Lexus/Toyota succeed. They just need more inspiring, more entertaining cars and the IS is the best example of how they went the wrong direction with their current crop of automobiles.
Another Lexus hater.
