spwolf

i had 2007 GS350 and 4GS certainly has better interior quality... maybe it is not as cool looking but GS also grew old fast.

GSthe4th

iTrader: (1)

The key to bringing others to the dark side of the spindle is EXPOSURE, obviously primarily done though marketing. Seeing it over and over, in person, on television, and on the internet (social media like IG). It's much like the radio (if you actually listen to the it) when you hear a song that annoys you. But if you hear it over and over, eventually you can tolerate it, perhaps you even learn some of the words. For some that tolerance becomes a liking...and wallah, you have a potential new spindle owner. The goal at a minimum is to get people to the car lot! For select buyers, seeing what it offers when modifications are added brings another set of people over from other brands. And we already have owners, or others that plan to become owners, who love the spindle as it exists on their car(s). If you consider the GS as the first to dawn it (as I understand it the CT had a spindle-like grill first), then it dates back to 2/2012. That's only 26 months. Many have talked about sales numbers, and as Michael Smith (ESPN2) has shown us, Numbers Never Lie. And the Lexus product, independent of the spindle, speaks for itself. And obviously the new additions to the fleet, talk of new trims and engines will only help.

Stereorob

In general, I like the new spindle grill. I do think it looks better on certain models though. It looks GREAT on the new LS, LX, and IS. idk if it really goes with the GS and ES though..

Carmaker1

I just realized something about Lexus, concerning the spindle grille, that it might even have roots in the mid-90s. The first Lexus/Toyota to even hint at a possible spindle grille outline was the first generation 1999 IS/1998 Altezza XE10. Ueno Kanto's XE10 design had its roots in 1995 and was production grade in 1996.



After it was introduced years later, slowly more Toyota vehicles started showing up with this semi-mirrored horizontal symmetry throughout the next decade. With advancements in sheet metal stamping throughout the 2000s, this gave way to a more connected grille, in the "spindle grille" in 2009. I can see the shaping may have originated somewhat from the 1995 XF20 LS400 and the 1SC facelift in August 1996. The '95 LS exterior was designed in 1991 and finished in 1992. The '97 1SC was 1995 design work, just as the IS was being designed.






I provided a very rough example of this from a frontal IS200 press photo taken in 1998.







What do you guys think? With the CT, LX, and GS, Lexus started following past examples and created the Spindle Griile in 2008-09? We heard about Katsuhiko Inatomi's GS design story from 2009, but why did both CT and LX have a prominent spindle shape before the L10 GS in late 2008? Yet everything spindle is attributed to the L10 GS, that was finished months after them in 2009 and barely surfaced in August 2011.

LX570 (from December 2007)


LX570 (from February 2010)


CT200h (September 2009 prototype from September 11, 2009 design reg.)



L10 GS prototype (2010)

Mr. Burns

It's also in the rear too.



Sometimes in more subtle ways too:

84Cressida

I've noticed a spindle in the 2011 Avalon refresh.

However, I don't agree that there's a spindle in the 1SC, 1LS, and 1IS, I don't see one at all in those.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

If there was, I think it was coincidence and not premeditated. The IS F, HS and 2008 LX on the other hand were seemingly precursors. Tried it and ran with it. Now the Spindle is getting better integrated and more dynamic. Cannot wait to see it fully on the GS

Slvr surfr

iTrader: (1)

Here ya go!

Marklouis

< dead ringer!

http://www.lexus-int.com/magazine/issue1/element/

Carmaker1

Apologies to everyone, I had meant to title this thread "Lexus Design Signatures/Heritage". In the "Distinctive Grilles" thread by bitakuna, I was going to post this, but felt the topic deserved its own thread. While not consistent until recently, Lexus has always favoured matching trapezoidal shapes and design cues. Only in the last decade, have they strictly focused on the symmetry of that in regards to the front fascia. Is the signature L the reason for this?

Rather than being a new phenomenon, is are roots of the spindle grille possibly part of Lexus heritage?

Thank you for that outline, as on the XE10 IS one can see even more trapezoidal shapes on the front fascia with the foglight area. Even though I mentioned the 2LS, the 1IS seems as if began that at Lexus.

Excellent point on other areas of the vehicle, as I was mainly focused on the front, but definitely shouldn't omit that from this discussion. I had noticed this on my sister's RX450 rear, especially after catching an article about it 3 years ago. The earliest of those rear examples is the 3RX, which was designed in 2006. About 5 years after Lexus began a uniform design language in L-finesse and a full decade after the 1IS design.

Also, quite a good eye with the 2013-16 LS (XF40 III), as I never noticed that shaping detail in the taillights. This spindle grille is something gradual and not just thought up out of nowhere, seeing that first example shows up with the 1995 LS400, yet '98 model seemingly abandoned that.

The HS also has lines flowing from front indicators into the bumper, instead of the upper grille to valance. Quite an interesting thing, that I've rarely seen before.

I never directly stated such an allusion. I am referring to the shaping, as most Lexus had rectangular upper grilles or didn't match the shape of their valance. The car referenced is actually the 1995 LS400 (XF20), not the 1LS. The 2LS was mostly designed in 1991-92. The 1LS design was defined in 1986-87, which is somewhat far removed from the spindle grille and has no specific cues in being rather flat.

No Lexus truly had a visibly connected upper and valance grille until the late 2000s. I pointed out advancements in sheet metal stamping, allowing creasing and contouring onto the front fascia, leading to the more prominent display as seen in recent Lexus models. Those 3 cars were designed between 1991 and 1996 (not including 1991 SC), about 15-20 years before the spindle grille came to fruition and became an actual uniform styling cue.

The Avalon (2010-12) is part of those Toyota vehicles I referred to, which started taking after the 1IS style in the 2000s. You provided a good Toyota brand example. Toyota and Lexus sharing designers might be why (legal documentation). The facelifted Camry (2004-06), had a less prominent version of this Avalon example (F/L designed 2003). So did the W221 S-Class AMG Sport variant, also designed in 2003. I had first mentioned this on another CL thread (MM's Q50 review).

Not so much premeditated, but about half-and-half. In the 2000s, someone in administrative personnel made an observation of past examples and noticed a symmetrical element that popped up here and there. Look at how the hood lines of the SC400 flow downwards, but also notice how the valance is a trapezoidal shape. If not for some other lines, it seem as if they're invisibly connected.

Oh yes, I had forgotten about the IS F's part. I intentionally did not mention the HS, but should have anyway, as it did preview it as well. Also, in place of connecting upper and valance grille, it connects the inner portion of the front indicators to the valance. I've been a bit unsure about the 2008 LX in that regard, while I am adamant that the 2010 LX facelift definitely preceded the 2012 GS. The 2012/13 LX facelift made in more prominent. I just have to ask, why?

Why did it take them so long to notice a design pattern and make it their signature? The 2LS that arrived in late 1994, had an inverted trapezoidal upper grille, with the valance grille/vent having a regular trapezoidal shape. The only difference between the upper and valance grille, was the specific material (horizontal "chrome" slats vs molded valance slats). It gave the impression of a disconnected (by bumper), yet flowing shape. Tooling in 1992 wouldn't have allowed for the 1995 LS400 to have prominent creases.

The 2LS was mostly designed in 1991, with its full appearance being frozen in 1992 (this is a fact). All of this 15 to 20 years before management began a strict focus on the spindle, as the future of Lexus design. If I recall, it wasn't until the spring of 2010 that it was mandated that all future Lexus models wore a prominent spindle grille. That mandate fully took effect on every new Lexus launched between January 2012 and late 2013, save for the already finalised 4GS (2009).

In fact, these implementations of the mandate quickly occurred in 2010 on the 2013 ES, '13 RX, '13 LX, '13 LS, and '14 IS. This explains why some have questioned, if they simply threw the spindle onto some Lexus models, that didn't have it already.

With the 1999 IS, both grille portions were of same material (mesh) unlike the 1995 LS400 and 1997 SC. If one was reduce to the width of the 1IS valance and connect the upper, you could form an early interpretation of the spindle grille. My basic point is that the signature italicized "L", may have something to do with the trapezoidal influence and this may be a long held design signature. Lexus did not simply just throw a "bent" Audi single frame grille, like some people have derisively suggested.

Many people easily assume the 1IS was simply a last-minute Altezza re-badge, but forget when development started on the XE10 in early 1994, it was already planned as a BMW E36 competitor in Europe. The fact some of these trapezoidal cues kept showing up on randomly Lexus models pre-spindle, has been a mystery to me, but I think it is related the Lexus emblem.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Perhaps answering your own question. While they knew there was no uniformity, there was a common theme between different models.

Personally I think Lexus found something special and I hope they stick with it. It's hard to confuse a modern Lexus with anything else on the road, they are doing a great job at differentiating them whereas BMW and Audi really beat that "one sausage different lengths" mentality like a dead horse.

Carmaker1

I had actually previously mentioned (failed to in this thread), that the finalised 2001 LS430 had these cues in 1998 and the concept design model from 1997 might have been much closer (haven't seen that of course).

The facelift LS430 (2002 design effort) was a more symmetrical and angular interpretation. The first Lexus to visibly that have contouring connect the upper and valance grille was the 2006 GS. Both the XF30 II (2004 LS430) and the S190 (2006 GS) were designed in 2002, with the latter utilizing the new L-finesse design language.

Thanks for source, as the article explains a lot. The 2006 GS only provided a visible connection between the upper and lower grille, but no lower trapezoidal shaping and doesn't even mirror the upper grille. The updates for 2010 even ruined this connection a bit.

Attributing everything to the '06 GS, is Lexus trying to make it seem as if they've been 100% consistent on the whole model range, when clearly that wasn't the case until the late 2000s.

Well I have been typing all over the place, so in some areas I have asked or answered my own questions. Even if Lexus decides to omit/replace the spindle grille in the near future, Lexus design should always have trapezoid shapes/cues. Whether in organic or angular form as an homage to the L logo.

hlee12

i think it's just a natural evolution from last gen. kinda like how audi came up with uni grill. just delete the middle and voila. lol

90's maxima


many cars today share similar shapes too.

Vh_Supra26

iTrader: (1)

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/01/lex...g-spindle.html

mmarshall

He seems to be forgetting what group (usually) has the most money to spend on new cars.....people in their late 50s/early 60s, just before retirement.