-J-P-L-

The R8 is 1/4 the price. The 2012 R8 GT doubles in price but is still half the LFA. Can it compete in performance? Probably, but I would consider a car half the price of another comparable. Just like a Corvette ZR1 can compete in performance numbers to cars twice the price, doesn't mean it's really in their classes.

Same with the SLS AMG, less than half the price of the LFA.

The highest end Porsche available is $245K Same deal.

It's not just about performance.

spwolf

i can only tell you what i know about - and in europe, toyota, it is late 90's that were the start of all bad.

those old Lexus models never sold well in Europe, never see them around. To me their styling was bad and interior was too cheap, as was with many Europeans and almost nobody bought them.

But didnt LS400 had issues with air suspension, didnt 2IS have almost every CD player fail, wasnt the MZ series engine in ES and RX awful with the sludge problems?

Again, I was not privy to lexus info so I dont know actual info, but today that MZ engine would have been recalled for instance.

But here we are talking about things you hear on the internet vs me working on all the TSB's and issues owners had here in Europe. So with that in mind I can tell you that post 2006 Toyota's are better cars overall than pre 2006 Toyota's, despite the recall frenzy or whatever. Only difference is that back then it was TSB vs actual recall and every single one was not in the media. But engines pre-2006 had more actual issues, recall or not.

LexLaw

Yeah I didn't quite exactly understand that either.

I'm sorry but what exactly makes my thread flawed? The fact that I desire to see Lexus make a sexy, attention grabbing sedan with aggressive styling and or coupe like proportions? Perhaps you also missed my point of how much the LFA is indeed an amazing car which eventually will lead to a trickle down effect. However is it a RARE car well beyond most people's reach. How many people go into a showroom looking to purchase one? Is it a car that we encounter in a Publix supermarket parking lot? I haven't seen one going down the FDR yet. Meaning it's not a mass produced car.

All I was asking for is Lexus to create one for its devout followers and casual passerby to lust for. How exactly is that over reaching? Your point about Mike lusting after is moot. We all lust after it and agree that it would be on our wish list of dream cars. However that's not changing the fact that there isn't a current car coupe or SEDAN( as I've specified) that gives most of us that rush. Closest being is the IS-F and many here and elsewhere don't view it in the same realm as the CLS, A7, Panamera and for good reason. Different type of car.

You mention the SC. Again so did I. I've actually owned mine for a while and still enjoy it. However not only is it not a sedan, it's still not in the category of cars that I previously mentioned, and is no longer on the assembly line. Have you read any of my posts or just saw the title and was put off by it? I agree that there will always be some who want or even lust after any model of car by any make, as each car moves people in a different manner. But that's not what this post is about. I'm sorry if you misunderstood what the meaning of my initial question was.

LexLaw

EXACTLY....This isn't an anti Lexus thread, in fact quite the opposite. The topic is simply wanting a mass produced car that evokes a ton of emotion, something the Europeans are constantly praised for. If Lexus can manage that along with keeping it's stellar reliability in comparison to it's nearest competitors, they would have a monster on their hands. I along with many others here in this thread and forum just want more from Lexus.


I totally agree. I just want.....

rominl

iTrader: (4)

suddenly price in this case is what determine if it's exotic or not? do you still consider f430 exotics? 458 are around 250k? i am not going to argue with you, but it's silly to not think cars like slr and gt as exotics. and for r8, that's why i said it's borderline. what makes a car exotic, it's more than just price and performance. for all i care, 458 is just as exotic, if not more, than lfa. i was offered an almost new lp560 for under 200k, so that's not an exotic?

look, i am not trying to discredit the lfa, it's way up there. but then again, i don't see it being really that much above others

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Besides the LX570, Lexus don't have any model I would like to buy in their lineup right now, ( can't afford the LFA even if it's available to purchase). I am crossing my fingers the 4GS will be good or I will have to go to the dark side on my next purchase.

RNM GS3

Well when Lexus will have a lineup that features Supercharched V8s with 500+hp (Jaguar) or S/RS models dedicated to performance (Audi) let me know!
Performance, interior options, color/wood choices, and CUSTOMIZATION for the buyer is what determines PRESTIGE.

BTW Lexus in the 90s was incredible because it had bulletproof cars, dealership service that was unparallel, luxurious interiors and tremendous value. It still offers these things to some degree, BUT its no longer enough. All the other luxury makes have caught up and in some ways moved way ahead of Lexus at this point.

My Dad still wants his 04 LS430 back, but he couldnt wait to get rid of his LS460. This is very common. A lot of long time Lexus owners have seen this decline first hand, including me, and we hope that Lexus improves.

RNM GS3

LFA and the LS600hL are both great cars. My ride in the LFA around the track will be something i will never forget and i was a passenger.

Unfortunately these cars dont sell well if at all because Lexus doesnt have the Prestige to get buyers for them.
There is so much competition not only from MB and BMW, but also from Porsche, Bentley, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston Martin.........NONE of these brands were a factor in the 90s.

-J-P-L-

I wasn't defining what an "exotic" is. I was just comparing levels at which these cars play. There's a reason one car costs a lot more than the other. Often times, as it is with the LFA, the car is simply built with more exotic materials. Yet in the end, it doesn't make the car faster. I was simply stating that these other makes don't compete at the price level of Lexus and yet we have people saying Lexus isn't tier one or doesn't offer anything interesting.

Of course all those cars you mention are exotics, but I wouldn't say they are as advanced and sophisticated as an LFA even if they're just as fast.

Mr. Burns

These two have renewed my interest in the brand (post MCE IS):




Those and the LS just about do it for me. We'll see if the new GS adds another to the list:



I used to be a big BMW fan but their newer models are a bit dull. I loved the last gen 7 series but the new one has lost a lot of that car's presence and now just looks like a larger 5/3 series. The 5 itself has become an overweight almost Camry like car in both appearance and excitement and the 3 series was ruined with the 2006 redesign though fixed somewhat with the recent MCE. The 3 coupe still remains as my favorite coupe on the market, and I love the current 1 series but it looks like that's been ruined too with the new one.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Yea I don't think Lexus will do any supercharging, does it mean they can't be Prestigious? give me a break...

We have the F brand, what more can you ask for?

Prestige is a public perception. Lexus is famous for it's oozing of luxury and pillow-soft-ride. No, Lexus isn't in BMW territory yet, mainly because they didn't feel the need to compete in that area. Now that Lexus wants to take a piece of the younger luxury car market, they are doing it.

When it comes to luxury car prestige, it is only MB, Lexus, and BMW. Audi and Jaguar have a bit to go, especially Jaguar.

cino

iTrader: (1)

QFT,
Checked out Q7 and QX56(yes, that dinosaur) a few days a go. QX56's interior looked gorgeous, while Q7's interior looked crappy for a PRESTIGE brand. Is Infiniti a prestige brand? no?

*Batman*

I think you'll find very few supporters for this argument. Jaguars start at >$50k so they are more prestigious than the other brands you mention. The XJ is built to a standard thats as close as Bentley short of buying a Bentley.

LexLaw

Q7 interior crappy? Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. What did you think of the outgoing A6's interior? Audi has been recognized for their elegant, world class interiors for a reason. Are they conservative at times? yes. Could they stand to use more wood? perhaps. But even then, they do an excellent job with their aluminum inserts. IMO crappy is quite a bit of a reach? Not only are they well built and virtually gap-less, I never hear of trim falling off or not wearing well due to daily usage.

I agree though Jaguar is obviously a small brand rebounding from a recent troubled past. Their lineup, as small as it is, is quite impressive. Only 3 cars currently offered all of which are packing with V-8s. The interiors which were always beautiful, are now modern yet still loaded with wood and top notch leather rivaling Bentley. Exterior design has gone a whole new direction.....The RIGHT direction. That storied brand built on racing has always been about prestige and now their cars are once again reflecting it. I can't speak on a global perspective and I won't place them in any order but here in North America, Jaguar, Audi, MB, Lexus, Porsche and BMW are all Tier 1. All others follow. What order people put them in is dictated by sales and personal preference. Bottom line is all of them are prestigious and offer luxury and performance that their customers look for in high end cars, all while being mass produced, large volume cars.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

prior gen A8's had nice interiors but apart from that, i think audi interiors are pretty ugly.