LexFather

Yeah I said it.

These thoughts have been growing in my mind more and more and its time for a thread. It seems every week we see some news of a new Euro car debut or one that will debut that is interesting. Contrarily the Japanese luxury brands are really a snooze-fest right now past the IS F, LFA and there isn't anything on the horizon outside of a possible GS F from any of the brands that is really INTERESTING and/or heart pumping. The American brands are in even worse shape, outside the lone CTS-V, Lincoln, Caddy have absolutely nothing truly interesting.

I even extend this to tuners. Euro tuners are always churning out some modified car. Every week we have a thread in Car Chat about some 500hp modified Euro car. Japanese tuners? Pretty much if it isn't a WALD, Tom's Lexus there is nothing being tuned in the luxury arena. Every week some Porsche, BMW, Benz etc is getting chipped, modified, etc. Japan? You might get a bodykit. America? I assume you have Hennessy waiting to take your money and then talk crap about you with pics of your money.

The gap is really widening. This is ALARMING. Audi's emergence, BMW, Benz are churning out some really cool cars in regards to their sport brands (S, RS, M, AMG) as well as the R8, SLS etc. Porsche of course is always interesting with a new 911 debuting every 17 hours. There is talk of more coupes and roadsters coming. I mean the C63 coupe is now here. Meanwhile we get a lame IPL G37 which is a Nismo car with Inifniti badges. BMW offers a M3 sedan, coupe and convertible. At least the CTS-V offers a wagon, coupe, sedan but the Caddy V-series line has been pretty much a mixed effort at best with the STS-V and XLR-V (I had to google the name b/c I forgot it, how telling) getting average reviews and are now canned. Meanwhile the Germans are birthing the coming S7, M5, etc. They now have a TT RS and 1 M car and Japan has NOTHING to compete with those types of cars.

Japan? Infiniti is building another gotdmn SUV, the Essence won't be built and Acura has its ugly head stuck so far up its *** it can lick its own *******. Its really a sad state if LEXUS has the most interesting and sporty products from Japan from an Asian brand. Egads. Hyundai has the Genesis/Equus but they are boring knock-offs even with the R-spec coming. The CT is sporty but there is no getting past 134hp. Sorry.

I saw an Aston Rapide and even though I am not in love with it, it sure as hell is interesting. Asian luxury, pretty boring at this point. Jaguar has like 4 versions of the XK now and 500hp XF/XJ. If I mention Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley, Rolls, Lotus etc etc we should really start crying if you are a Japanese luxury/sport car enthusiast.

While the Germans have always led the luxury arena here with the combined might of BMW/Benz vs Lexus, the emergence of Audi is really making it seem like German luxury>>>Asian luxury. When the old SC was discontinued, Japan offers not one V-8 coupe/convertible. Japan has no big body coupes. Japan has no super sedan outside the IS F. Japan has no luxury sports car outside the LFA. Infiniti's IPL is basically their version of Lexus F-sport, mildly interesting at best from both brands. At least Infiniti offers the 429hp or so M56, though no one seems to care. Acura, well they still haven't figured out you can actually go past 300hp.

Acura has absolutely nothing, 3 ugly sedans, 3 ugly SUVs. They spoke so much about how the ZDX is a tier 1 product b/c of some leather on the dash and didn't even have the sense or ***** to maybe slap a V-8 or something in the ZDX to at least truly compete on a performance level with the X6. The X6? For all its ugly at least BMW offers not just a twin turbo I-6 but a twin turbo V-8, a 450hp or so hybrid and then a 550hp X6M. The ZDX has the same gotdamn 300hp engine. 300hp was something in 1998. In 2011 its nothing out of the ordinary. Its like they are stuck with the old Japanese Gentleman's agreement or something.

Then its not like the Germans are stuck in the past and just investing in all these high power cars and sporty cars. They still are churning out small cars, hybrids, diesels, efficient cars. So its not like we can say "hey their priorities are wrong". They simply are expanding on all levels. Contrarily Lexus debuts a HS and CT one after the other and then a LFA which costs literally TEN TIMES as much. Nothing in the gap to sell of interest. What kind of plan was that?

This has nothing to do with the earthquake, the quake didn't halt interesting products. Quite frankly the Asian luxury brands better get their **** together or the Germans are going to completely dominate the luxury arena here and worldwide, even more so than today. Lexus cannot be the sole luxury brand from Japan with a gotdamn clue, the other two need to seriously elevate themselves or just go the **** away. Finally if Lexus doesn't elevate itself to another level (not talking about the LFA) in regards to more interesting products they too will become an afterthought and there will be a ****ing Porsche in my hands.

speedflex

Interesting post. I think that for all of these companies it simply comes down to business as to how much they each invest in high-performance versions of their products. BMW and Benz have had decades developing their tuner arms. Maybe Audi as well. Going back at least 25 years there has been a market, albeit a small one, for the AMG and M variants. And keep in mind that the Germans have been global brands for a long time. Not so the Asians (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura).

These companies have to see a good business justification for having a dedicated high performance tuner, whether it be in-house or an outside partner, like Henessey or Shelby. I think they're all focused on market penetration right now, especially in the newer markets, like Europe and China.

For me the degree of performance/sport image among the Asian luxury makers has less to do with special, limited edition ultra-performance versions and more to do with the level of sportiness inherent across the entire product line in the most basic versions of their cars.

Alucard

Compared to the frequent (and cool) new offerings Audi puts out, Lexus/Infiniti/Acura are trailing.

What's frustrating is that, except for maybe Acura, they have the potential to make exciting stuff once again. For some reason, they just don't.

spwolf

i would argue that difference in number of models was even bigger before, when you didnt have IS-C, IS-F, LFA.

MB always had their big coupes. BMW never did.... Audi is doing something.

IS-SV

The highest/huge volume vehicles are actually the mundane mainstream products in the US including C300, E350, 328, ML350, X5 3.0, etc. And in that fat part of the premium market Lexus does quite well with IS, ES, RX offerings.

Of course the AMG/M models (versus the new -F) are very important for a premium automakers image.

(Of course I have a slanted attitude of an enthusiast, so it's no surprise that I ended up with a IS350 F-sported-up with BMW-type summer tires.)

I8ABMR

I was told I was nuts because I said that Mercedes has a more developed reputation for performance and "cool cars" than Lexus and that is why Mercedes ' reputation will always differ from that of Lexus and the other Japanese luxury makers. Thanks for agreeing. LOL

I have to say I agree with what you said. I like the way you think and envelop the market. You have always had an awesome knowledge base

rominl

iTrader: (4)

you brought up a lot of good points mike. it can be looked at from a few different angles. on one hand, i think it's true / safe to say that lexus (or japanese brands) create bunch of very "easy" and "simple" vehicles and a lot of people buy them. that's where sales numbers come in and you can see that for example lexus is doing exceptionally well. but of course, if you dig into the numbers, you see the rx and es are leading the way, which again proves my point.

but when it comes to offering and choices, euros are really really hitting is so hard. granted, sometimes i think the choices are just a bit too much and ridiculous, but nonetheless they are there. and in today's luxury vehicle segment, the ability to choose and "do whatever you want" seems to be the way to go.

aftermarket support is another very easy way to see how this segment works. only enthusiasts and people with money really mod their cars, and aftermarket companies are here to make money, so it's obvious they spend r&d and sell stuff where they can make money. and i think it's pretty clear where that lands.

so you can see how the sales number goes one way but how money goes another, it's a very interesting way to divide the market i think. the way i see it, it's two philosophies at work. japanese are more realistic and practical so they focus on making something work well and last long, thus the cars we see. european they have more of a passion of create what's cool and what's different / special, and we are seeing the results.

i wouldn't say one side is more successful than the other, but it's just different ways of approaching the problem. now we enthusiasts when we look at it, i think we will tend to be on the disappointing side on japanese cars, that's understandable.

LexFather

My post is not to say being "soft" is bad. Its not. Sorry but a base FWD A4, Q5 with a 4 cylinder is boring and soft. A base 5 today is pretty boring and soft. etc etc. There are different models for different buyers.

My issue is PAST those cars, the Asian brands are severely lacking while the Germans/Euros offer products galore. The Germans in particular are expanding to all sorts of segments high up (A7, CLS, etc) and expanding existing sport lineups. I understand Lexus is still new to this arena and it takes time but they really need to haul some butt to catch up here. There is no reason the SC should have a gap between models again! As for the others, they are every further behind.

I agree a basic Infiniti is sporty outside the QX but sorry it doesn't inspire performance, their tagline. They don't outperform ANYTHING. The GT-R does but its a Nissan. It muddies the entire message. They need to build some cars, not more SUVs!

These brands are getting left behind. They are too slow to react. The Asian brands need to really get it together.

Acura dropped the ITR, Type-S, NSX, I mean anything truly relevant. Sad.

Exactly. True Lexus has expanded but the Germans/Euro brands have too. We have a 4 door Aston Martin for crying out loud now!

Right and my post is not to bash core products that sell well. That is a beautiful thing for all these brands. Your second point is my point, they need to understand how important that halo line is!

The issue was with taking a congrats Benz thread off-line by bringing up Lexus and the LS. I think we all agree the Germans have more prestige, particularly Mercedes. Thanks for the compliments.

Yes and again, this is not to crap on core products or products that sell. What we are witnessing are the German culture hungry and moving forward in all areas and the Asian brands still kind of holding back and taking their time. Well time is flying! Lexus is behind in China behind the Germans and Infinit/Acura are pretty much non-exisistent.

Lexus needs to have the teams behind the IS F and LFA more involved in more products. They clearly have the expertise to make an interesting superb product. They are sadly outnumbered by accountants and as Gengar put it in another thread "looking for the next Camry or Prius". That is great for shareholders possibly but it creates a bland/boring atmosphere. I'm all for a 42 MPG CT much like I am for an AWD CT F with 300hp. Audi does it with the A3 for example, from a craptastic 100hp A3 to a RS3!

dunnojack

yes, lexus is pretty much handing over the luxury coupe market to the germans and infiniti.

i think there is profit to be made in the entry level coupe market.

beyond that, the question remains- is there profit to be made....
each model requires R&D, and if the model only sells 100 per month, 1200 per year, it's not gonna be worth the investment.

Squirrelz

You know what would be badass? A 2 seater coupe from Lexus, an upscale 370Z, NOT A CONVERTIBLE! I hope if and when they do bring back the SC, this is what it will be.

dunnojack

baby steps.

first, a true 3 and C coupe competitor. not some $50000 frankenstein IS convertible.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Very good topic Mike. I fully agree with your argument. Asian and American luxury is lacking behind it's European counterparts.

That said, I feel each continent is focused on different aspects of the industry. For example, Asian manufactures have a reputation of reliable and efficient vehicles that are also intuitive with their controls. Of course non are perfect, but they are atop their segment in regards to the aforementioned.

European automakers on the other hand have a rich pedigree of racing and motoring that many of their cars are made with high quality materials and feature content. Their vehicles posses strong powertrains and awesome road manners. Unfortunately their flaws are (ie reliability) are covered up by cushy leather and the oddest suspension that is both comfy yet firm. I like to compare the Europeans automakers to their hierarchy governments from which they came. Offering a full stable to do battle with the next kingdom. For example BMW; 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 series, X1, X3, X5, X6, Z4 (did I miss any lol) and then of course the enemy; A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8 and Q5, Q7, TT, R8 and S/RS versions as well. I feel Europeans like to add depth to their models. Just how far down the rabbit hole can they go with a model. The BMW 3 series for example; 328i, 335i, 335d and M3 as top dog. Let's not forget lesser diesel and petrol models offered anywhere but stateside. Anyway point being European cars add sophistication and push their models to performance extremes while retaining that haughtiness that we so love to flaunt when were at a stop light.

American cars have come a long way (mostly in recent years) from their crude no frills beginnings. Of course that's not to eschew one of the greatest class of cars only American's could give way to; American muscle. Despite the sometimes questionable handling dynamics, the raw power surely puts a smile on ones face (thank you 60s-70s muscle, Ford GT, Chevy Corvette and Dodge Viper!!!). As far as reliability is concerned, despite the same poor reliability record for American and European cars alike, European models get the nod because of their pedigree and plushness. I would never change this though, because each brings their own charm to the automotive world. The difference between American V8 and European V8 soundtracks... I love'em both!! Coming back full circle your your topic Mike, I feel that each automaker (luxury) in particular for this discussion are focused on different things. Asian automakers in particular have brought fuel economy to the table as it has become a social issue. I've seen the Europeans approach this in a different manner by downsizing engines (M5 V10 to V8TT etc..). I can't say much for American luxury at the moment. They are trying I'll give them that. Cadillac in particular, they've tried adding V models to most of their line-up in the past, with little success. Personally I think they need to work one model at a time. The CTS is good, and the ATS looks promising. Not a benchmark like the 3 series but at least its a step in the right direction. Back to the CTS, they took a gamble on a coupe and wagon and I give them major props for that. They do need a flagship in the XTS, and I hope if comes to fruition. As for Lincoln, as many of you know I'm a huge Ford Fan. Lincoln is on the right track but they still fall short of Cadillac's strides. This said, much of Ford's line-up is new or revamped which means Lincoln IS coming. From what I've gathered look for a new direction in 2013 for the brand. I expect the 3.5L EcoBoost to be a selling point for their future products and the brawny new 6.2L V8 in the new Navigator. I would love to see RWD manifest itself into the line-up, com'on version of Ford Falcon.. To it's credit, the MKZ Hybrid blows the Lexus HS250h out of the water.

Anyway, I feel it's great that the LFA and IS-F were pushed into production. Mr. Toyoda is doing an awesome job (just like Ford's Mullaly) and I hope to see more products like these in Lexus's future. I want another SC please. As for Infiniti, it's kind of a mixed bag. I like the Bionic Cheetah theme of the FX and it's strong V6 and V8 powertrains, but not so much the EX. I really despise the QX too iono lol. The G is a great sedan, but for some reason I feel it's already so long in the tooth and it keeps gaining weight. There's little things about the G that bug me like the cheapness of it, ie some chrome window trim and the door handle should not feel the way it does for a car it's price. The new M is a great replacement for the last M, and V8 is awesome. The new hybrid system is a beautiful thing and I hope the next GSh will compare performance wise. The M still lacks the prestige and presence of it's E, 5, A6 and GS competition. I do think if Infiniti wants to gain more ground and claw its way into Tier 1 status, they need to offer a Q flagship once again and the luxury content needs to take precedent over the cheapness. I work at an auto mall with (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW, and Mini) and its interesting to compare all these models. And lastly Acura... *sigh*. I feel like their 3 sedans are simple the same thing just in different packages (and prices). Physically all three are about the same length. There's honestly not much to say, no real definitive packages or powertrains and the materials used are almost not worthy of even an upscale title. RSX is gone and who knows if we'll ever see a coupe again. Quite honestly I'm shocked Acura hasn't shipped it's Honda Civic the CSX down here for more sales. It works for the Accord/TL lol. Acura confuses me, and I hope for the sake of Honda/Acura's awesome heydays of past that they find their mojo. One last thing, to their credit, I'll correct you mike. The TL with SH-AWD's 3.7L V6 pushes 305hp . Overall, I just think it's the mentality of the automakers depending on their region that really defines an automakers product.

I think to really compete the Europeans, both Asian and American manufacturers need to offer that hierarchy system to a T. They need to build a strong line-up that fills class segments including those niche models while offering that something extra that the competition doesn't. Sometimes keeping up with the Jone's is a must. Finding an equilibrium for performance, reliability, safety, technology, innovation, intuitiveness, design, handling and fuel economy is key to success in the automotive field.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Lots of good points made here...great thread, Mike

A few of my own thoughts:

1) As someone else mentioned above, Lexus, Acura and Infiniti are much younger brands who are now spending money and resources on global expansion...something Merc and BMW did decades ago. There is considerable time/effort/risk/money involved in introducing your brand to the continents of Europe or Asia, so let's not lose sight of that.

2) CAFE standards and gas prices. While it's fun to sit here and drool over M5s and C63 Black Series, less than 5% of the U.S. population even knows what those cars are, much less has the capacity to buy them. Yes, they are important for image and the halo effect, but how relevant are they really? So far, the hybrid efforts that we have seen from the Germans have been lackluster and in their comparable classes, Lexus hybrids (and now Infiniti with the M35h) spank diesels in emission standards. Lexus is investing heavily in hybrid technology as we have seen, and I have little doubt that this is the way of the future. Exciting? No. Important? Extremely.

I'm not saying that the Europeans are necessarily going to fall short of the ever climbing CAFE stndards, but it's not like they are building fantastic high performance cars and class leading frugal hybrids at the same time.

3) Infiniti is struggling to stay relevant. The G is their only solid product and the QX has added reasonable volume at dealers, but everything else has been a flop. It's hard to focus on novelty projects when your core is one single car. There was a lot of talk about an M coupe but I'm sure that has been canned based on the take rate of the sedan. If the M succeeded, I'm sure there would have been a new Q in the pipeline but I'm sure that has been delayed indefinitely at this point as well. Bottom line: Infiniti's foundation is not strong enough to support the exciting projects that we'd like to see.

4) Lexus' lineup is old. I'm relatively confident that we will see Lexus diversify their next generation offerings into more exciting categories - IS coupe is a given, GS coupe would be great. GS F is a done deal, I'm quite sure. Not much will change with the ES as it's a tried and true formula. LFA took a lot of resources to develop but was well worth the expenditures. F Sport versions of the next gen IS, GS and LS are to be expected, I think. SC retired and should return soon as an all new product. Overall, the whole lineup needs new designs, new technology, new innovations and a new atttude. Lexus did a poor job of cramming so many redesigns together in such a short amount of time in the last few years so now we are paying for it.

Lexus NEEDS the following products:
7 seat crossover
Small coupe or sports car a la SLK/Boxster
Coupe and drop top versions of IS and GS
Small SUV like Q5 and GLK
~$120,000 - $140,000 sports car
Hybrid IS, ES, GS, LX

Any of these would give Lexus better economies of scale/scope to develop new products with existing ones. Yes, Lexus does share some R&D cost with Toyota, but Toyota isn't calling for DSG or DCT transmissions, 500+ V8s, 400hp hybrids, top level audio and media systems, etc. Lexus needs to be more responsive and innovative outside of hybrids and they need to start looking for more production/resource efficiency within their own lineup.

For example, development costs for new V6 and V8 engines, F and hybrid parts could be split across IS, GS, LS, SC, 7 seat CUV and IS/GS coupes. Platforms could be easily swapped and subbed as well. My point here is that we aren't trying to reinvent the wheel and many of these exciting new models could be easily funded and justified by the development costs of other next gen products. Merc and BMW use the same V8s, V6s and transmissions across their entire lineups which means that when they update one, it's quick and easy to update the entire range. Lexus pulls a V6(3.5L) and two V8s(4.6L, 5.7L) from Toyota...and how quickly does Toyota update and upgrade their powertrains (sarcasm)? If there were more Lexus vehicles using the 5.0L/4.6L UR V8 and 8AT, there would be a better business case for updating it. Same goes for the 3GR-FSE, though it's already one of the best engines in it's class.

I doubt it would ever happen but I'd like to see Lexus switch the RX over to the GS/IS platform and possibly use the LS chassis for a 7 seater SUV. Why? Well now, the RX and ES get updates when the Camry does...the Camry is a run of the mill family car that isn't competing with the X3 and Q5. Lexus does a good job of working up Toyota parts to be acceptable in their cars, but if the RX, IS, GS, ?X, SC and LS could all share parts/engines, it would do a world of good for the entire Lexus range. Using Toyota parts is cost effective but not particularly competitive in the ever changing luxury arena. Investing in updating the 3GR-FSE or UR V8 would be a quick shot across the lineup that would keep them fresh for 2-3 years in the middle of a product life cycle. Now, Lexus waits for Toyota to upgrade the V6 in the RX and ES, then they worry with the V6s in the IS and GS when the time comes, and the V8 when it's time to redesign the LS. It's already plain to see that this isn't good enough.

I'm fine with CT, ES, GX and LX being Toyota-derived products because they are already somewhat niche markets. CT needs to be inexpensive - ok, fine - share costs with the Auris, Prius, Matrix, whatever. Give me Lexus sheetmetal with a Lexus interior and I'm ok with the parts under the hood coming 80% from a Toyota. ES' Camry roots are fine because it needs to remain an entry level product and has already eaten far enough into GS territory. Big, comfortable, Lexus sheetmetal, wood and leather, done deal. Nobody builds an SUV like Toyota so I'm fine with the LX and GX being LX/Prado based, but they can't continue to ignore the 7 seat CUV market where they are currently failing. Not to mention that they don't have one performance SUV...why? X5, ML, Cayenne, FX all have some sporting flavor and the RX, with FWD roots, certainly isn't capable and neither are the BOF GX and LX.

Bottom line: Lexus' economies of scale and scope are good for profits and BAD for the sake of competition. They depend too much on Toyota to be as cutting edge as BMW and Mercedes. Toyota is a mainstream brand so as long as Lexus is sourcing platforms, transmissions and engines from them, they will always be a step or two behind the Germans. Not to mention that Lexus' manufacturing standards for IS, GS, LS, SC are worlds above what they are for Toyota derived products.

5) Acura. Who?

CDNROCKIES

'Bout time someone did.

Maybe you should have quantified this with a "performance" criteria. While the LS might not be the most exciting driving machine, it serves it does it's job in a way that most cars only wish they could fulfill.

I will also disagree strongly with Henry in that I thought the GT-R could be considered a luxury car. It has far too many bells and whistles to accomodate the driver to be considered otherwise. It is, of course, not on par with a high end luxury car, but is far better inside than any entry level BMW or MB...or even Lexus...gasp.

Pardon?

This whole quote is confusing?

Really?

You don't think the Z06/ZR1 or Boss 302 are exciting and interesting???

Ford especially have brought some good cars to the table recently and even GM has brought a V coupe and wagon to the table.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the scope of your unhappiness Mike?

To the bolded part, this is one area that Lexus is at a massive disadvantage when compared to the Germans.

There is simply nothing available for the IS F that can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZM1o...layer_embedded

I'm not sure why Audi is considered "emerging"? They have offered a much broader line up than Lexus has for a significant period of time. I have stated before that the true Tier 1 brands have always been MB/BMW/Audi with Lexus being the newcomer.


Scary thought....but the Japanese brands are not just getting passed they are getting run over.

Not really sure this is a fair comparison Mike.

BMW, for example, does not have a car in their line up that can truly be considered a "supercar". At least Benz has the SLS and Audi has the V10 R8 and Lexus has the LF A.

Lexus is still the front runner and leader if you're considering Japanese marques. The GT-R is the exception....and even if you can't ignore the Nissan badge....you can't deny the ridiculous performance it provides.

Shouldn't be part of the conversation.


Agreed.

There are literally 4 cars in the Lexus line up that I would even remotely consider at this point....and I already own one of them. Outside of the LF A, LS and RX there is literally nothing in the Lexus line up that I would even glance at.

The dire nature of your post is amusing Mike, but really not truly depicting the current state of affairs of the brand.

Keep in mind that "enthusiasts" make up a very low percentage of actual buyers. Most people could not care less about the things that irk us collectively.

I certainly agree that Lexus will lose their sales title for reasons other than the tsunami. It is unfortunate but reality it appears.

mordecai

Although Lexus has lost some momentum against the Germans recently because they have been stepping their game up, this disparity is magnified by the fact that Lexus is in the tail end of a generation shift. I think the next 2-4 years will be exciting for us enthusiasts as Lexus will begin a new generation of cars beginning with the 4GS.

It is almost no secret that they will release the GS F and we keep hearing whispers of a new SC in the works. The next generation IS should be a more integrated 3/C competitor with a proper coupe. The next IS F will now have to be considered from the beginning of the design phase, instead of being a later skunkworks project, which will hopefully mean a much more competitive car against the M3 and C63. The return of a sports coupe in Toyota's lineup will hopefully translate into a Lexus FT model using the FT platform (similar to Camry -> ES) and using some of the technology from the LFA.

In fact, I feel that the LFA is a sign of exciting things to come. Being the halo car of Lexus means that its technology and philosophy will filter down to the entire Lexus lineup (and this was alluded to in the latest article of Lexus Magazine). The next LS is something to watch out for, since it was the peak of Lexus design and engineering before the LFA came along. I think we will see a lot of the LFA's technology in the next LS and being the most expensive Lexus, it could make considerable use of the LFA's carbon fiber tech. The next GS F and SC will probably use carbon fiber likewise.

The CT is also an interesting addition to the lineup that will make Lexus more competitive against the Europeans. HS is a failure design wise, but the next generation could be good. The trucks are good, but will need to step it up in their next generation.

All in all, Lexus is not in the bad shape you say. It's true that the lineup in general is kinda long in the tooth, but the LFA only means good things for the brand. We should be excited that Lexus is willing to make more performance oriented cars