bad co

Lexus needs editions that make the car feel special. Pebble and F sport wont cut it. They'll something like designo from MB, S - Line from Audi, and M package. F Sport lacks the visual styling cue's. It's just a lip kit and some wheels and a noisy intake. It doesn't make the car feel special. A F-Sport is should look like a toned down version of IS-F.

spwolf

>2011 F-Sport look their part.

spwolf

even special colors:

spwolf

and also, in Europe at least, it is factory model... not dealer added.

spwolf

indeed... in 2 years, i expect Lexus to build up on what they started with LFA, IS-F and LS460 Sport.

as to the CT, HS, etc, so what? when BMW/Audi release 1 series, or A1 , then it is ok.. when they build Q3, X1, etc, it is ok... but dear lord, dont let Lexus have more cars :-).

If they do it right, with GS-F and GS-Coupe, as well as babyRX, Lexus will fill huge gaps in their lineup.

And they have too many cars :-).
CT, HS, IS, ES, GS, LS, CX, RX, GX, LX

thats 10 full models at least, out of which some will have coupe/cabrio/sport versions...

bad co

2011 looks sharp I hope the trend continues with future f sport vehicles

sndesign

The only problem Lexus is facing right now is an old lineup. The 7 series and 5 series are new, there is a new E class and the C class is newer than the IS. We've already seen many spy shots of the upcoming 3 series but no news on the next IS.

I will take these two over any german rival though!




Otherwise I am not very concerned with a few niche high performance vehicles. These cars have capability that the average owner will rarely use, they hog gas, depreciate like rocks and are awful reliability wise.

BMW and Mercedes have money to burn, German cars are highly profitable since much of their asking price comes from intangible things like cachet and prestige.

LexFather

So in the past year this is what Asian brands have done;

INfiniti-JX zzzzzzzzzzzz, G37 IPL convertible
Lexus-CT-F-sport, GS F-sport, best driving car in class but lacks V-8, RX F-sport coming, LS F-sport coming, ESzzzz. The funny thing is even with these new additions its not enough.
Acura-RDXzzzzzz, ILXzzzzzzz

Germans

Audi-new S range with new engine, RS cars coming, TT-RS
BMW-new M5, new M6, new 6 series, new 6 GT and M version confirmed
Benz-We just saw a pic with like 25+ AMG cars too much, many to mention, new C63 coupe, new C-class coupe, new Black Series, new ML 63, new GL 63
Porsche-new Boxster, new 911, 100 911 varients, Cayenne GTS, Panamera GTS

Egads!

Whats insane is even as Lexus pushes sportier it just doesn't seem like enough. The Germans continue to churn out so many interesting vehicles to me, they are on a MISSION, seemingly all the brands! Contrarily look at what the Asian brands are doing and how slowly they are moving.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^I don't know that I agree with the Asian or German strategies - I think Lexus and Infiniti are doing too little, and BMW and Audi seem too be doing too much. Lexus has, of course, been slow to respond to the market or even to their own successs. They should have planned for an IS coupe in late 2006 when they saw how well the sedan was selling. Holding out and giving us a convertible 4.5 years later was a stupid move. GS F should be available or confirmed by now as well. Just-freaking-do-it. Build it and they will come. If you don't get it right the first time, learn from your mistakes and try again, but if you don't build it at all, you'll never know.

Sometimes, I think that Audi, Mercedes and BMW are out to conquer the alphabet and numerical system in it's entirety:

A1
A2
A3
A4
A5
A6
A7
A8
A9 (rumor)
Q1
Q3
Q5
Q6 (rumor)
Q7

1 Series
2 Series (rumor)
3 Series
4 Series (rumor)
5 Series
6 Series
7 Series
X1
X3
X4 (rumor)
X5
X6

A Class
B Class
C Class
E Class
etc., etc.

I don't know when it will happen, but there has to be some product saturation in there. To be fair, I felt Lexus was guilty of this with the IS, HS, ES, and CT. The removal of the HS makes much more sense, but how confusing to stand in an Audi dealership and try to figure out what you're even trying to buy? They sound the same, they look the same, and they're all about the same size, give or take just a few inches. I see the "something for everyone" strategy, but dealers also have capacity and resource constraints and I wonder how efficient it is to have SO many vehicles with overlap.

Lexus needs to spend more time increasing the depth of their existing product lines, not so much the breadth of new products. I think 2-3 other CT variants would be a great idea; IS and GS need coupes and convertibles (and wagons for other markets); GX needs to go unibody and offer a standard V6 with optional V8 and hybrid V6 (imagine a GX 450h with GSh powertrain!). The two new products that I would like to see are a sub-RX suv and the LF-LC. I'd also like to see F Sport and F models of just about everything but the ES and LX.

I posted something a while back about why "Lexus needs a Camry" - a versatile platform that can underpin several vehicles and share R&D costs. Putting the IS, GS, (RWD) RX and a unibody GX on the same platform should be entirely possible. This allows for them to all use the same engines, transmissions and powertrains, be it V6, V8, hybrid or F. Makes so much sense that Lexus will probably never do it, but I can dream.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

the other day when talking to my friend, i actually commented how i think euro cars continue to LOOK very attractive and stylish, but driving wise i think japanese cars are taking a better turn at a better pace

LexFather

Nice post. The thing is the Audi "same thing" deal is working. Their marketing is working and they still are trendy and cool right now. Hopefully the changes Mr. Toyoda made means quicker decision making and bolder decisions.

They need to just expand the F line period. Not even AMG/RS car that debuted beat the M car, some were merely okay but it was offered.

Yeah Lexus is really figuring out the driving part. Its really odd that Lexus has gotten sportier and more courageous which appeals to me yet I find myself more and more flirtatious with German vehicles. A big part to me is the communities too, they are huge, very helpful and tons of shops. Even my pops, a die-hard Lexus fan, recently commented to me he was disappointed with how Lexus handles enthusiasts.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

My post above focuses mainly on Lexus, but stepping back and looking at this from the viewpoint of Asia vs. Germany, Lexus continues to carry the torch for the land of the rising sun without much help. This is not good for Lexus (Mike and I have talked a lot about this).

Acura is now a sub-luxury brand and Infiniti seems to be dead in the water for right now. JX is doing great things, but is not the image builder/halo car that Infiniti needs. A strong M would have done wonders, but this generation fell short of that. I have high hopes for the next G, but even then, without a stronger lineup, Infiniti will continue to be several steps behind Lexus and just a few ahead of Acura.

"German Luxury" > "Japanese Luxury"

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

great thread (thanks mike).

i actually feel bad for the japanese makers though, because their yen is strong, their labor costs are high anyway, their workforce is aging and shrinking, and yet japanese culture typically doesn't want to build things elsewhere (an admirable thing but maybe impractical in today's global economy) or cede much control to 'foreign' subsidiaries of those corps.

on a related note, sony in the past was (maybe still is) notorious for not even telling the u.s. subsidiary what they're working on or helping them much at all.

japanese culture is also pretty conservative overall, although of course we have MANY examples of amazingly bold innovation. but with changing times, a still strong currency and weakening workforce, japan is really in a bind. nissan, now owned by a french company (!) has somewhat broken out of that, and honda certainly has a BIG chunk of its manufacturing in the u.s. and some pretty strong control over here, but toyota probably needs to become more global and make less product in japan. there is no reason they can't transplant their legendary processes and quality control methods anywhere.

i think the problem is somewhat of balance sheet paralysis. lexus costs are no doubt high and the sales have been somewhat lackluster (even not counting the earthquake impact) and so i suspect r&d budgets get cut back. i've no doubt they also spent a BUNDLE on the lf-a, which as i've said, in my opinion, was not the best use of funds (as much as i love the lf-a).

and toyota/lexus may have a self-fulfilling prophecy in thinking sporty models are such low volume that 'why bother'? but that's obviously not entirely true as they've been expanding their f-sport line-up, even if a lot of it is just cosmetic.

the numerous 'sporty-lexus' efforts have been rather half-hearted, whereas MB/AMG for example, just keeps knocking it out of the park.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

on the f cars, it's a tough one. as you mentioned before, f is so new and it takes time. my feeling is they don't want to just snap on a big engine and a few tweaks and call it a day, they want to create something more balanced and "right" to begin with. if anything, the isf got some criticisms that it didn't seem to be a " complete" vehicle when released in 08, because of all the big (and great) changes over the years.

from that point, i can see why they are taking their game. but at the same time, we know the market is fierce and they NEED to have f cars out asap for brand image and to compete with the other brands

you are right on the aftermarket support, it really put lexus to shame. so many tuning, shops, parts, etc... for euro brands, i am scared to get on those boards coz' i take my cc out

and no disrespect at all, but i think it could have a lot to do with age too. with the styling, badge, status, etc... you have to give some to the euro brands. they are just somehow doing it right. i definitely see more ppl getting those brands for the image rather than the drive

I8ABMR

how so ???