TLe2006

i think he posted the wrong s60r pic.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

The biggest contributor to the improved fuel economy is the transmission. The new 6th gear ratio is taller than the old transmission's 5th gear. The front end has less drag, but not enough to make an enormous contribution considering the EPA's testing method at highway is only ~60 mph. Drag usually isn't a big factor until you reach even higher speed.

This is one of the better refresh from Acura, but when your initial design is at rock bottom, then you have no where but to go up.

mmarshall

Totally correct. I couldn't agree more. I've long said that for most driving conditions, anything more than 5 or 6 speeds was simply overkill.

whoster

This is exactly the reason why Acura doesn't get it.

No passenger sedan actually NEEDS a V8.

No passenger sedan actually NEEDS an 8-speed gearbox.


But luxury is about excess and overkill, and if your engineering isn't up to par to produce V8s cranking out close to 30mpg (Lexus V8, Ford V8, Chevy V8, everyone else's V8s)--then you're just tarting up excuses to sound better in a press release.

madmax2k1

Too little, too late.

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

I like this car! Kinda pricey, though, from what it historically used to be.

mmarshall

I understand your point, but we're talking about a TL here, which is an entry-level "luxury" product at best. TLs aren't meant to compete with big V8 Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus full-size sedans. Technically, the RL isn't either...it's just not physically big enough to do so.....and Acura admits that their vehicles are not meant to be Tier-1 luxury vehicles (or "overkill") as you would phrase it.

LexBob2

Last year Acura sold around 33,000 TL's.

With the arguably improved styling, other improvements and a stabilizing economy, they'll no doubt sell more of the refreshed model.

whoster

But this is again where Acura sells itself short--

The TSX is their "entry-level" vehicle, and like the A4, the 3, C, and IS it's offered with two different engines and the wagon model.

So where does the TL fit in? Is it an E-segment vehicle like the 5/E/GS/A6?

These mid-size sedans are all offered with V8s, some with even more exorbitant engine options.

The RL in itself is also questionable--based on the same platform as the TL, is bigger than the TL--but not really, it's used to be the flagship--but not really, since they're pushing the ZDX as a "flagship." How could they mess up a lineup this bad?

I'm fully aware that Acura has admitted to not being a Tier-1 brand, but I grew up really liking Acura products. In Australia the Honda Legend was pretty fantastic, and when I came to the States, the Acura Legend, Integra, and NSX were still awesome vehicles. Hell, my neighbor here has a pristine Legend Coupe with the pearl white paint and it makes me sigh every time I go outside.

What's most disappointing to me is I feel like Acura made Japanese luxury and performance a possibility, and since then it has not made any steps to furthering their impact.

Why do they want to settle for less than Tier-1? The down-turned economy? There's "no need"? "Smart" luxury?

I think it's all just bad excuses spun by their PR folk.


P.S., my posts are in no way debasing your opinions, mmarshall--I'm just disappointed by a company from which I expect better products.

UDel

Those statements are completely false. Have you ever even sat in and drove a TL, TSX, and Accord? A TL is not just a accord with badges and SH-AWD(not all TLs even have awd) TSX is not just a 4 banger Accord, they are very different cars. The TSX is very close to a Euro Accord but the Euro Accord and US Accord are very different cars intended for different types of buyers. TLs have completely different interiors then Accords that are higher in quality, have more hp, have more standard features and more options, they don't share any body panels, the TL has a more solid sporty ride with more sound insulation, etc. TSX is smaller, more focused, and sportier then the US Accord with a nicer interior.

Just because a car shares the same basic platform does not mean it is going to be the same car and can't be executed differently. If you are going to say that then a ES is just a Camry with different badges, A RX is just a highlander with different badges, a LX is just a Landcruiser with different badges, a Bently Continental is just a Pheaton with different badges, a Rolls Royce Ghost is just a 7 series with different badges, a G35 is just a 350Z, a SC300 was just a Supra with different badges, etc. Most Acuras, Infinits, and Lexus were or are also sold as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan models in Japan and other markets.

As far as choosing a Volvo over a TL have fun with Volvo's notorious poor reliability and high maintenance prices and not having the resale value of Acuras. If I am going to get a pricey unreliable European car I would at least get one with rwd and a prestigious badge like a BMW or Mercedes.

venom21

New Volvo's have had excellent reliability so far.

UDel

The improvement in fuel economy was not just because of the exterior design, it was because of the added 6 speed auto as well as some alterations and improvements in the engine. The refreshed 6 speed manual I believe has the same fuel economy ratings as the pre facelifted 6 speed manual so the exterior alterations had little to do with ratings.

The TL did not get poor fuel economy either, it was only 1-3 mpg off from some of its competitors which is not much and many of those competitors are smaller lighter cars. Real world results in tests were often very close or even better then many competitors rated higher. Also the SH-AWD version was often compared to rwd competition making fuel economy look worse when the weight and complexity of AWD was not taken into account.

The refreshed TL with the 6 speed auto is now tops in its class fuel economy wise even compared to some smaller, lighter competing cars.

UDel

The newer Volvo models have not been out long enough to determine longer term reliability and I have seen reports where they still have issues. Anyone can build a car that is mostly trouble free for a year or two, the real test is when it is 4 or more years down the road how reliable it is. Lexus, Acura, Honda, Subaru, and Toyota are still tops in long term reliability and resale.

I8ABMR

I think they are headed in the right direction. What bothers me more than the beak and the weird rear was the strange fender line over the front fenders. Looks odd.

UDel

I don't believe you can get a V8 in a new regular A6 anymore unless you fork over a ton of money for a S6 and all rumors seem to point the next Lexus GS will not have a V8 option unless you go for the top of the line GS-F. BMW will be using 4 cylinders again for the 3 series and 6 cylinders are rumored to replace the regular v8 option in the next 5 series. Companies are downsizing engines across lineups for fuel economy regulations.

The TL does not fit perfectly in just one segment. Because of its increased size the base TLs can compete with the more entry level cars because of its lower entry price where the TLs with SH-AWD can be more competitive to the V6 A6 and GS at the higher end. Sometimes the TL-SH-AWD is also compared to smaller competition like the S4 and IS350.