IS-SV

Yes, I've seen the new TSX wagon on the road and wasn't impressed, the sedan looks better IMO, and should easily outsell the wagon handily. But if the TSX wagon was ever intended to be a crossover, a complete redesign would be necessary. For example a CRV is not a rebodied Civic, even if it's derived from a Civic chassis.

I fully expect the TSX wagon to have mediocre sales like the Crossturd thing.

btw, incuded in what I was responding to was this:

"The older Accord and Camry wagons were quite popular here, too......until they were dropped in the 1990's. None of these wagons, BTW, was discontinued because of poor sales.....their manufacturers simply convinced themselves that Americans disliked wagons, but it had little basis in fact. But a number of wagons continue in production....and they sell, even in America."

The Camry and Accord wagons were not popular, they were dropped because of poor sales and low demand, they did not sell in large quantities. And these wagon sales continued to slide downwards over the final years, not the growth market major automakers want to invest in.

mmarshall

True to some extent, but the same potential optional components (or what would be optional) have already been EPA/DOT-approved in the 2011 TSX sedan.....3.5L V6, 6MT, etc.... It would be a cinch to have the wagon approved.


It used to be that Honda-designed VTEC fours (especially the smaller-displacement ones) had all high-RPM HP, and didn't have enough torque at low speeds to pull Humpty-Dumpty off the wall. That has changed somewhat with the fours used in the newer CR-X, Element, and TSX models. The RDX, of course, has real torque at low-RPMs, and will shove you back in the seat......but that, of course is a turbo, premium-gas 4, and not in the same league as the others.

Though the TSX wagon's rear seats and headroom are (barely) one step above the IS250's Munchkin level, I still wouldn't call them useful for larger adults.....certainly not someone my size or Mike's (1SICKLEX).

LexFather

Here is the difference.
The HS might "look" like a Corolla but its not a Corolla rebadge. Its based on the Avensis and is completely different inside and out.
The TSX "is" an Accord. Period. A rebadge (though the Euro Accord is a solid car in itself)

The TSX is nothing more than their cheaper version of the ES. It got bigger, fatter and gained a V-6 no one buys. It got less sporty. I agree its a good car and IMO their best sedan.

They advertise it as a "sports car". That is ridiculous.
They advertise it as "technology". It has none but a fancy NAV.

The HS is a hybrid that gets 35 MPG. It offered LED lights. It offers a Heads Up Display, front and rear cameras, lane assist, radar cruise, remote touch and the car is 85% recyclable. The plastics are a special eco based material. It has semi-analine leather.

That is technology. Even if it looks worse than a TSX, which is pretty bad

LexBob2

If car buyers want an Acura in this segment they can always get the RDX.

I'm glad to see they are trying the TSX wagon, I just don't think it will do very well and raising the price even higher by adding AWD, V6 etc. wouldn't help sales due to the stigma wagons have in the U.S.

lamar411

Good review. I wonder how many of these they will sell. i'm thinking not many.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

a whole car has to get approved, and not components, so it's burdensome even if a vehicle is 99.9% the same as another one.

so? the ls400 was a toyota in japan.

it's sportier in feel than a lot of sedans. a true sports car? of course not. but then a bmw 3 series isn't either, but it sure is sport!

it may be 'technology', but it barely sells at all.

the car i presume is an accord wagon (estate) in europe, where wagons are still very popular, so i assume there will be the majority of sales anyway.

lexmenow

Great review. No reason to buy any Acura right now.

mmarshall

It's a rebadged version of the non-U.S.-market Accord, which is a smaller platform than the large Accord sold here. It also has noticeably better handling than the larger Accord.


I can't agree there, Mike. The TSX chassis is about as far away from that of an ES as Charlie Sheen is from soberness. The two suspensions and steering systems are as different as night and day.

Have you sampled the new TSX's handling? Though I agree it's not a sports car per se, it's definitely sport-oriented handling.

If they would give it the SH-AWD (which they haven't), the sedan's V6 option would then make more sense. And, of course, if they would just do it, a wagon V6/AWD/raised-suspension would make an excellent Subaru competitor...I think it would get a lot more sales than the awkward-looking Honda Crosstour.

Neither the TSX sedan or wagon, though, has the superb SH-AWD system the TL and RL does....a major oversight on the part of the planners. Other than that, though, yes, it is built/assembled extremely well at the factory, and has a well-done chassis/tires.


There's a pretty fair amount of "sport" in the wagon's handling....especially by FWD family-sedan standards. No, it's not a Miata or S2000, but it will handle circles around some wagons/sedans its size.

mmarshall

Thanks.

The TSX Wagon is a good prospect for those who want a well built, reasonably-priced, reliable, FWD wagon with good handling. My main complaint (and I know I've said it several times) is that the goofy-looking Honda Crosstour got the equipment/options that the TSX should have gotten instead.

mmarshall

Thanks.

Like I said in previous posts, the FWD/4-cylinder-only configuration may hurt sales some. If they had equipped it like the Honda Crosstour, it would probably have more appeal.

I myself like the wagon, though, even the way it is now. If I go for a FWD car instead of an AWD car next time (particularly a Subaru AWD), the TSX wagon is going to be very high on my shopping list.

mmarshall

Apples and oranges. The RDX is much more of an SUV.....though one with a lot of sport in its power and handling. That's like telling people who want a Toyota Venza to go get a Highlander or RAV-4 instead.....they are all different vehicles.

Right now, because of the competing Honda Crosstour, it's hard to make that prediction either way, but if the TSX wagon had gotten the Crosstour equipment instead, it would probably be selling better then the Crosstour right now. And the competing Outback and Venza, of course, DO sell.

IS-SV

Not really, since he was responding to your suggestion about making TSX with more "crossover equipment" to be more successful. Apples and apples if the TSX had been designed to be a crossover. But the point was that Acura already has a crossover, so no need (it's called the RDX, and it doesn't sell especially well, maybe the beak isn't helping).

And the RDX is a crossover SUV, just like the Venza and Outback are crossover SUV's. The Venza and Outback will easily outsell the TSX wagon (and RDX), per the historical sales data already available on the 3 of 4 models.

mmarshall

Sorry, I just disagree with your premise that the Venza, Outback, Crossover, XC-70, Audi All-Road, etc..... are SUV's. I simply don't see it like that. Though some people classify them this way, I consider them pretty much what they are......conventional AWD sedan/station-wagons with the ground clearance raised a couple of inches for deep snow, and maybe some very mild off-roading in easy conditions. As I see it, that is substantially different from crossover, car-based, unibody true SUVs like the Highlander, MDX, RDX, RAV-4, etc.....

In fact, the whole concept of the full-time AWD sedan/station wagon with raised-suspension goes back to the AMC Eagle and Eagle SX-4 of the early 1980s (I'm sure you, with your car knowledge, remember them). One would hardly describe them as SUV's.....even car-based ones. They were simply redone AMC Hornet/Concords and Gremlin/Spirits.

We can all go on and on with these arguements, but I think it is just a matter of how each of us sees, and perceives, the basic design/execution of these vehicles. So maybe we should move on to other topics with the TSX wagon.

IS-SV

They are all classified in the United States by EPA as SUV's. Going around and around about subjective SUV perceptions and Eagles and Hornets (like those Eagle/Hornets are similar to the crossovers of today and justification/reason for not calling the Venza/Outbacks SUV's) is just too funny, not to mention a waste of time, but what the heck, this is internet with all the blathering that goes with it.

Moving on (on to the topic for a change) is the best idea in a long time on this thread. The TSX wagon will outsell the RL at least, measured that way a sure-fire success!

LexBob2

Yup, the car buying public will have the final say on the TSX wagon. We'll see in a few months how well it does in the real world.

Acura's job is to put out a product with the best chance to sell and make them an acceptable profit on each one sold.

Our job is to second guess and speculate.