MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

As the first drives and final specs on the Volt and Leaf roll in, I have found myself continuously comparing them to the Prius and wondering which one is really "best". Living in the city with an all-city commute, I have tossed the idea around of buying a high-mpg hybrid in the future and keeping the GS for weekend fun.

At first the Volt and Leaf both looked like they would unseat the Prius and be left fighting for the crown, but once you take a moment to consider the reality, I'm not so sure.

Why?

Well...for starters, I don't know if I am sold on the idea of shooting my electric bill through the roof just to save gas. My commute is about 3 miles each way so any of these vehicles would save me considerable money. My electric bill is quick to bite back and I can only imagine what it would be like if I was charging my car every week. Real world numbers would help here.

Second, unless you have a garage with an outlet, there is absolutely no infrastructure in my city to deal with an EV. I live in an apartment and the parking deck is at the end of a long, inside-access hallway. There is no way that I could securely charge my car and be sure that my neighbor wasn't pulling the plug to charge his Leaf, or that the kids next door weren't using it to shock eachother. I don't like the idea of my car being left out somewhere to charge when it takes a prolonged period of time and I essentially have no control over it. This is a big problem for those living in apartments and condos.

Third, the idea of a car running solely on electricity is a bit worrysome to me. Stop and go, scoot and shoot traffic here would probably be enough to drain a battery faster than what the charging instructions would lead you to believe. Add in two or three passengers, A/C and radio, and I wonder what happens. On one hand, I want to think that running out of power would be easier said than done, but on the other hand it seems like a very real consideration. I don't know many strangers who would allow you to plug your Leaf into their house for 4 hours just so that you could get home.

The Volt addresses some of these concerns since it has the ability to run on gas, but at that point, doesn't the MPG drop to around 39MPG?

Fourth is cost. Neither the Volt nor Leaf are necessarily cheap cars, even with the tax break, while a Prius starts at $23K and can be nicely optioned for $25-26K. There is a pretty sizeable difference between that and a Volt or Leaf. I know a lot of the buyers of any of these cars can/could afford something more expensive and purchase them just to ease their environmental conscience, but the Prius has successfully become a mainstream car and is no longer really considered a niche vehicle. People looking at Camrys and Accords often add the Prius to their list as an option and end up going home with one. Not sure if that will be the case with the Volt and Leaf, and price is a significant factor there.

Last, Toyota has been doing this for more than a decade, seen three generations of Prius and countless other models, not to mention sold more than 1 Million hybrids in total. While I applaud GM and Nissan's efforts, I personally put a little more stock into the reliability of the Prius just because Toyota has already been playing this game for so long. Maybe that's just a personal bias.

At the end of the day, the Prius still stands tall and is the one I would want to purchase. I find it to be a more "liveable" automobile, especially as a single male. I often take 100+ mile trips to North Georgia, Florida, or North Carolina and couldn't do that in a Leaf, and would see a huge MPG drop with the Volt once the batteries wore out. The Prius is self sufficient - getting great MPG all the time and at any range, is quick to fuel up, and fits within my lifestyle and current capability. I don't have to worry about plugging it in or running out of electricity, or getting less-stellar gas mileage if I run out of electric juice. It's also significantly less expensive than the Leaf or Volt, and comes from a decade-long history with proven success.

It's worth mentioning that I do commend the efforts of both GM and Nissan and recognize that they have produced fantastic automobiles, but IMO there are some aspects to any EV that will be prohibitive to mainstream America. For now, the Prius remains the most livable and reliable alternative.

What do you guys think?

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

My parking space at my condo doesn't have a place for me to plug in my electric car...

SLegacy99

I'll respond to the poll when I hear what real owners of the Volt and Leaf are actually achieving....after the vehicle break in period.

bagwell

I voted for the current Prius mainly because of the flexibility and price, they are regularly advertised new for <$20888 in my area (picked mine up used with 11k for $18.8)

no idea of the plug-in Prius price,but that comes later.

guess you need to vote for Prius then




Each user's scenario is different. If the average person drove 40 miles every day, they would pay approx $31.54 (30.5 days/month) for Volt fuel and be able to drive 1220 miles. That same amount of gas would get you approx 563 miles in the Prius. Most drivers will drive less than 40 miles some days and more on other days. The precise calculations will be different for each user based on their driving habits, and are impossible to finalize until the gas generation "MPG" is tested.

For calculation purposes: if we were to assume the Volt gets 35 MPG in gas generation mode, the current average electrical price ($0.1175), 8.8 kWhrs, $2.80 gasoline. the Volt would cost $1.03 for the first 40 miles each day, the Prius would cost $2.24. Each mile thereafter the Volt would cost $0.080/mile, and the Prius would cost $0.056/mile. It would take another 51 miles beyond the first 40 for the Prius to close the gap.

Bottom line if the Volt gets 35 "MPG" in gas generation mode, the Volt would be less expensive every day an average person drives 90 miles. Any day an average person drives 91 or more miles, the Prius would be less expensive.

personally, I LOVE the idea of the Volt -- they just need to improve the batteries a bit and decrease the cost --- and I LOVE the idea of plugging-in in my garage every night rather than stopping at gas stations all the time.

LexFather

The Prius EV should be included. I agree the Volt/Leaf are not really viable alternatives yet, not until we have additional infrastructure and that will take years, if not decades. I have not driven the Leaf or Volt but I really liked what I saw inside and out when I inspected them and I do like them for short commuting.

The Volt/Prius seem like real cars and the Leaf more of a novelty. Well I'd rather an IS F as a novelty

The Prius as stated is PROVEN and that is reassuring. 50 MPG is still best in the business for petrol engines. I don't mind the looks in black with the 17s and there is a lot of optional technology in it the Volt and Leaf will not offer.

Though if it was me, I'd wait and get the CT.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^Truthfully, CT, Volt and Leaf will probably compete well in terms of price.

bagwell

but too much of an unknown right now....

what's the price? no idea
real electric-only range? supposedly 13 miles

I think they need to rate the "equivalent MPG" on these cars based on different distances traveled....
example:
VOLT
for a 50 mile trip 211 equivalent MPG
for a 100 mile trip 101 equivalent MPG
for a 200 mile trip 92 equivalent MPG

-J-P-L-

Prius.


I'd be convinced to choose the Volt if I could go home with one for $25K. GM just has to find a source that gives away free drive batteries.

The Leaf? I wouldn't pay more than $10K for a Leaf. Seriously. A motorcycle is more practical.

You just can't beat the Prius's combination of mainstream affordability, 50+mpg all of the time, nice styling, impeccable reliability, superior resale value, ect.

However, if the goal is to save money, you should still choose a compact car or even a sub-compact for greatest savings. Even a Prius in the end costs more to operate than a Corolla or Yaris. This will be true until gas costs over $5/gallon. Because with a Prius, your gaining about 10-15 mpg, but it costs you $6-$10K more for a typical Prius than a Yaris or Corolla. That's a lot of gas money.

But it's obviously not an apples to apples comparison. Many people want the more upper class feel of the Prius over the econobox nature of the Yaris and Corolla. So some of that price premium is warranted in having a higher class car. Just pointing out a strictly economic standpoint.

bnizzle87

the prius, as stated by 1SICKLEX, is proven. people get hopped up on how much MPG a car has, when it's their driving style and environment that can dictate that. i know a few prius drivers who travel at least 100 miles roundtrip each day just for work, and they say that it's a bonus to have that gas/electric combo just in case one runs out. but to have a vehicle powered by electricity without enough places to charge up away from home makes for a dangerous thought on the roads.

jaseman

None of the EV's or hybrids excite me at the moment. So for the moment, my choice remains none. Even in a practical car, I need something that gets the blood pumping. Would I consider one in the future? Sure, if at was semi-sporty, and handled well enough to enjoy flogging in the mountains on a Sunday morning. I'm not asking for a Tesla, but an EV or hybrid in a true sports-sedan, with 50mpg and a 150 mile range on pure electric under spirited conditions would be nice. But the auto industry is still at least a decade off from making that a reality in something affordable.


For daily commuting, very little is actually more practical than a bike. Who needs four doors and seating for five if your just going back and forth to work. Most people take little more than their phone with them in the morning. And briefcases or laptops are still easily done on two wheels. Parking is a breeze in most cases, and you get in and out of traffic much easier. All at 40-50 mpg (as long as I'm not too liberal with the throttle).

Yes, weather is an issue, especially if you live in the Northeast like me. But even at that, I currently save more money in fuel, only riding 6 months out of the year, than I would buying an EV/hybrid and driving it everyday and paying the electric bill to charge it.

Plus, it really gets the blood pumping in the canyons!

sc-driver

iTrader: (7)

I did a couple calculations for the Volt and the Leaf, and it boiled down to this:

You need to be paying about less than $0.18 per kWh of Electricity so that the Volt or the Leaf will be cheaper to run than a Prius.

Last time I checked my bill, we were paying about $0.29 per kWh.

Threxx

A couple things to consider here:

-The Prius may start at 23k, but how does it come equipped? Pretty spartan. The Volt comes very nicely equipped at its base price. Standard navigation, power everything, alloy wheels, onstar, xm, keyless, iphone connectivity etc, IIRC. I wouldn't be surprised if you equipped them similarly and after tax credits the Volt was only 4 or 5 grand more expensive than the Prius. That's a difference that could easily be made up by fuel savings and possibly by just a preferred driving experience.

-The Leaf's EPA range has been listed at 73mpg. A far cry from the marketing department's claim of 100. Volt is rated by the EPA as a 35 mile range but then of course 'unlimited' range after that.

-The Volt appears to be considerably less efficient after its battery runs out than the Prius is, so if road trips are a routine thing, you'll probably be better off with the Prius in terms of fuel costs.

spwolf

Their MPGe is 99 for Leaf and 93 for Volt. According to EPA, Leaf will get at least double the EV range than Volt.

Volt is also strictly 4 seater with less trunk than Prius, and it is not even PZEV vehicle. I am not sure who would be intended audience? Wannabe but not real greenies?

They really messed up with those emissions, thats just way to silly. If Prius PHEV wasnt PZEV vehicle, i bet we would see story updates on ABC and CNN on hourly basis.

Threxx

I was referring to fuel economy when the battery has lost its charge. Putting 'mpg' after the number 73 for the leaf was typo/slip on my part. I meant to say the EPA gave the leaf a 73 mile range. Its fuel economy after that 73 miles is null and void because you'll be calling a tow truck or pushing it to the nearest charging station (you can't even pull the classic 'get a ride to a gas station and come back with a gas can' trick)

Less trunk than the Prius? Is that significant enough of a fact to bring to the forefront of the comparison? The two cars are very different. It sounds like the Volt has quite a few advantages as well based on its initial reviews. Especially in driving dynamics.

The Volt is basically zero emission until it runs out of battery juice or has to kick in the engine as a supplementary power source. So for people normally driving under 35-40 miles, the Volt is probably the greener choice. And for those driving over that range, well, it appears that the Volt releases 60% more CO2 per mile driven than the Prius, though in reality both amounts are extremely trivial compared to the cars sold just 15 years ago. It might just not appeal to the ultra greenies for that reason, but I don't think it's the end of the world. Aside from that, I think these vehicles are going to get most of their sales from people who just like the fuel savings and cutting edge image of an electric vehicle... not so much the hippie crowd.

Funny that you're claiming media bias against Toyota. If anything it has been the media turning a blind eye toward Toyota and crucifying GM about everything they could get their hands on... until this last year or two and the tables seem to have turned. I'm not denying that Toyota is getting a lot of negative attention these days (partially their own fault), but were you complaining when the shoe was on the other foot a couple years ago?

MR_F1

Electric motors are going to have "break in" periods?