MM Review: 2011 Infiniti G25X AWD
10-30-10, 08:29 AM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Have you seen the car and/or driven it? I know you went to the last San Jose and SFO car shows, but I don't think it was displayed there.....it wasn't at the D.C. show either.
Probably not surprising. Much of CA's mild climate, outside of the high Sierras and their winter snowstorms, is not conducive to AWD vehcles....though AWD does help out in rain, too. In the D.C. area here, IS250AWDs and Audi Quattros, like Subarus are a dime a dozen....even though we usually don't get winter as bad as places farther north and west (last winter, with its repeated blizzards being a notable exception).
I agree with you, though, that the G25X's sales are not as likely to be as high as the IS250AWD's, for two reasons. First, it is not as solidly established in the marketplace like the IS. Second, its almost sports-car-stiff ride, even with the standard non-sport suspension, is likely to turn some potential non-sport-oriented buyers away.
But I have doubts about the miniscule sales volume potential of this AWD sedan. For example in California I have seen only 2 of the AWD IS250's in the last 3 years, so I know they sell very few out west when compared to hugely successful RWD IS250.
I agree with you, though, that the G25X's sales are not as likely to be as high as the IS250AWD's, for two reasons. First, it is not as solidly established in the marketplace like the IS. Second, its almost sports-car-stiff ride, even with the standard non-sport suspension, is likely to turn some potential non-sport-oriented buyers away.
10-30-10, 08:40 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks. 
Yes, I agree its not a bad-looking car. 
. As I pointed out in earlier posts, though, a CVT eliminates much of the complexity and cost of the 7 and 8-speeds. Nissan currently uses them on V6 engines up to about 300 ft-lbs. of torque....and the Nissan and Subaru units don't seem to have the motorboating/rubber-banding surge characteristics of some other CVTs. The current rage, with some newer CVT's, is to use shift-paddled, artificially-programmed "gears" (actually pre-determined ratios) in the drive-belt.
As far as the manual-transmission issue, this seems to be mistake #3. Lexus, when the IS300 first came out, delayed the introduction of a a MT version. Infiniti did the same thing with the G35, when it debuted. Now, we see it a third time with the G25...if the G25 will ever get one.
I'm starting to like the exterior styling of the new G series especially the sedan. This car has 7 gears? It seems that a lot of cars nowadays are having more than 6 gears. Too bad though it doesn't come with a manual transmission.
. As I pointed out in earlier posts, though, a CVT eliminates much of the complexity and cost of the 7 and 8-speeds. Nissan currently uses them on V6 engines up to about 300 ft-lbs. of torque....and the Nissan and Subaru units don't seem to have the motorboating/rubber-banding surge characteristics of some other CVTs. The current rage, with some newer CVT's, is to use shift-paddled, artificially-programmed "gears" (actually pre-determined ratios) in the drive-belt.As far as the manual-transmission issue, this seems to be mistake #3. Lexus, when the IS300 first came out, delayed the introduction of a a MT version. Infiniti did the same thing with the G35, when it debuted. Now, we see it a third time with the G25...if the G25 will ever get one.
10-30-10, 08:43 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
10-30-10, 08:52 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks, Russ.
I would too, as I said at the end of the review, but not by a huge margin. The G25X, overall, is a well-built car, and does seem to give you your money's worth, notwithstanding the minuses I pointed out. But the IS250AWD's wood trim, more compliant standard suspension, slightly better paint job, much-wider choice of paint-colors tips the scales for me, too.
About like I thought, my only comment: I'd take my old IS250 AWD over it all day long!!!!
10-30-10, 11:18 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Of course, I respect your opinion, but, using your theory of the more gears, the better the fuel economy, then why not just go to a CVT instead of tacking on more and more gears? They are not only lighter than a 7-8 speed, but cheaper to produce. Although they are still being perfected (and some still have drivability problems), most of them today can easily take the 184 ft-lbs. of torque that this engine produces. In fact, Nissan, Infiniti's brother division, uses CVTs on some larger, more powerful 3.7L V6s.
The LS, of course, has a big V8 with a lot of torque......for most driving, it certainly doesn't need 8 gears for flexibility. However, the LS marketers may have been trying to appeal to potential German buyers as competition for the BMW 7-series, Audi A8, and Mercedes S-Class. Those cars often travel on the unlimited-speed sections of the German Autobahn at well into triple-digit speeds. Under those conditions, 7 or 8 gears might make some sense......if fuel-economy and RPM-related engine wear is going to be an issue.
Some of the best-selling cars on the road, BTW, are still using 4 and 5-speeds. It is not just a matter of being "stuck" in the past. For many cars, it's not really the past, but now. However, I do agree that 4-speed automatics, in luxury/upmarket cars, just don't cut it any more....and I did criticize both the new Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne for their inflexible 4-speeds.
The LS, of course, has a big V8 with a lot of torque......for most driving, it certainly doesn't need 8 gears for flexibility. However, the LS marketers may have been trying to appeal to potential German buyers as competition for the BMW 7-series, Audi A8, and Mercedes S-Class. Those cars often travel on the unlimited-speed sections of the German Autobahn at well into triple-digit speeds. Under those conditions, 7 or 8 gears might make some sense......if fuel-economy and RPM-related engine wear is going to be an issue.
Some of the best-selling cars on the road, BTW, are still using 4 and 5-speeds. It is not just a matter of being "stuck" in the past. For many cars, it's not really the past, but now. However, I do agree that 4-speed automatics, in luxury/upmarket cars, just don't cut it any more....and I did criticize both the new Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne for their inflexible 4-speeds.
And CVT's are unacceptable in this class of car for several good reasons as you mentioned, including unproven reliability, poor reliability reported by many owners already, poor driveability and a miserable/droning driving experience.
And having 6/7/8/9 speed trannys has nothing to do with higher top speeds in Europe, because the multi speed trannys have closer ratios, not a taller top gear. Anyway the top speed of any of these modern multispeed tranny cars is achieved in some gear other than the top gear, which proves that the extra 7th or 8th gear has nothing to do with achieving a higher top speed. Both Lexus and Mercedes have proven multispeed trannys with thousands of owners already exceeeding 100K miles. I won't bother explaining why the benefits of better fuel economy is a good thing.
In short (given we are in 2010), Infiiniti made the right choice with the tranny given that they cater to premium car buyers and charge premium car prices.
Last edited by IS-SV; 10-30-10 at 11:27 AM.
10-30-10, 11:26 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Next planned MM Reviews (besides the annual Holiday Review): 2011 Hyundai Equus, 2011 Ford Explorer, and 2012 Ford Focus. I have CL requests for all three. The Equus is scheduled to be released in this area in November (though it is unclear whether Hyundai will allow conventional at-dealer test-drives); the all-new Explorer in December, and the Focus in January. The all-new Scion tC may (?) also be on the list.
10-30-10, 11:46 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Have you seen the car and/or driven it? I know you went to the last San Jose and SFO car shows, but I don't think it was displayed there.....it wasn't at the D.C. show either.
Probably not surprising. Much of CA's mild climate, outside of the high Sierras and their winter snowstorms, is not conducive to AWD vehcles....though AWD does help out in rain, too. In the D.C. area here, IS250AWDs and Audi Quattros, like Subarus are a dime a dozen....even though we usually don't get winter as bad as places farther north and west (last winter, with its repeated blizzards being a notable exception).
.
Probably not surprising. Much of CA's mild climate, outside of the high Sierras and their winter snowstorms, is not conducive to AWD vehcles....though AWD does help out in rain, too. In the D.C. area here, IS250AWDs and Audi Quattros, like Subarus are a dime a dozen....even though we usually don't get winter as bad as places farther north and west (last winter, with its repeated blizzards being a notable exception).
.
I agree with AWD popularity in snow belt areas as many CL posters have reported. And out west most SUVs are sold with 4WD/AWD even to non-skier types.
10-30-10, 12:56 PM
#25
Lexus Champion
I haven't bothered to take a 30 minute test drive in this car and probably won't. This low-power version, like the IS250 that I have driven has little interest for me. I do plan to read an in depth road test when one of the major car magazines does a road test eventually. Car wasn't shown at last SF or SJ shows, but interest in CA would be tepid.
I agree with AWD popularity in snow belt areas as many CL posters have reported. And out west most SUVs are sold with 4WD/AWD even to non-skier types.
I agree with AWD popularity in snow belt areas as many CL posters have reported. And out west most SUVs are sold with 4WD/AWD even to non-skier types.
10-30-10, 04:40 PM
#26
thanks for the excellent review
I had the chance to drive a 2010 G37 sedan loaner for 2 days when my FX was in for maintenance. It was non-sports and I felt the suspension was still rather stiff. I wonder if the G25's non-sport is as stiff. If that's the case then it might be alittle harsh for the general public.
I had the chance to drive a 2010 G37 sedan loaner for 2 days when my FX was in for maintenance. It was non-sports and I felt the suspension was still rather stiff. I wonder if the G25's non-sport is as stiff. If that's the case then it might be alittle harsh for the general public.
10-30-10, 05:03 PM
#27
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thanks for the excellent review
I had the chance to drive a 2010 G37 sedan loaner for 2 days when my FX was in for maintenance. It was non-sports and I felt the suspension was still rather stiff. I wonder if the G25's non-sport is as stiff. If that's the case then it might be alittle harsh for the general public.
I had the chance to drive a 2010 G37 sedan loaner for 2 days when my FX was in for maintenance. It was non-sports and I felt the suspension was still rather stiff. I wonder if the G25's non-sport is as stiff. If that's the case then it might be alittle harsh for the general public.
10-30-10, 06:01 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The Ford people say December for our D.C. area.....not sure about CA. Your state, though, especially in SoCal, often gets new-vehicle introductions first, with L.A. being the center of the country's car-culture.
December, to me, seems like an odd time for a new-vehicle intro. Many people, of course, after Thanksgiving, aren't looking at new vehicles, and are usually tied up with other Holiday shopping.
December, to me, seems like an odd time for a new-vehicle intro. Many people, of course, after Thanksgiving, aren't looking at new vehicles, and are usually tied up with other Holiday shopping.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-30-10 at 06:06 PM.