Toyota Scion FT-86 G-Sport Concept Car debut at 2010 Australian Motor Show
10-18-10, 08:41 AM
#21
^There is just a lot more stock in the Toyota name, for one thing.
Scion, so far, has been relatively hit or miss and there is always talk about whether or not the company will go under or stick around. Even though it's obviously backed by Toyota, why would you want to buy a car from a company that is so up and down? Resale comes to mind as well.
Furthermore, I don't think there is enough cache and recognition under the Scion name to sell a $25-30K car.
The only plus I can see in the car being sold as a Scion is their sales process - the car comes as-is, add-ons are simple and straightforward. That attitude would be great for this car, but I'd still rather see it sold as a Toyota.
Scion, so far, has been relatively hit or miss and there is always talk about whether or not the company will go under or stick around. Even though it's obviously backed by Toyota, why would you want to buy a car from a company that is so up and down? Resale comes to mind as well.
Furthermore, I don't think there is enough cache and recognition under the Scion name to sell a $25-30K car.
The only plus I can see in the car being sold as a Scion is their sales process - the car comes as-is, add-ons are simple and straightforward. That attitude would be great for this car, but I'd still rather see it sold as a Toyota.
10-18-10, 08:56 AM
#22
^There is just a lot more stock in the Toyota name, for one thing.
Scion, so far, has been relatively hit or miss and there is always talk about whether or not the company will go under or stick around. Even though it's obviously backed by Toyota, why would you want to buy a car from a company that is so up and down? Resale comes to mind as well.
Furthermore, I don't think there is enough cache and recognition under the Scion name to sell a $25-30K car.
The only plus I can see in the car being sold as a Scion is their sales process - the car comes as-is, add-ons are simple and straightforward. That attitude would be great for this car, but I'd still rather see it sold as a Toyota.
Scion, so far, has been relatively hit or miss and there is always talk about whether or not the company will go under or stick around. Even though it's obviously backed by Toyota, why would you want to buy a car from a company that is so up and down? Resale comes to mind as well.
Furthermore, I don't think there is enough cache and recognition under the Scion name to sell a $25-30K car.
The only plus I can see in the car being sold as a Scion is their sales process - the car comes as-is, add-ons are simple and straightforward. That attitude would be great for this car, but I'd still rather see it sold as a Toyota.
Resale might be affected but I don't see why it would be when they are serviced by Toyota anyway. It's not like Toyota will crumble and you have no dealership support but resale is dependent on the market and if everyone starts to sell their Scion FT-86s for cheap so will everyone else.
I agree 25k+ for a Scion is not the price point they want to target that brand for but that doesn't really have anything to do with how customers buy the car. From a buyers experience there's no difference because you're already in a Toyota dealer anyway when you're buying a Scion.
I've stated it before more people might enjoy the Scion sales policy for a vehicle like this.
I just think there's too much hate going on towards Scion and the FT-86 being badged a Scion and for no personal reasons.
You're not a dealer, so why do you care? Honda/Acura were bickering over who would get the S2000 and NSX in the states but do enthusiasts care? No.
I agree strategically for Toyota they should sell it as a Toyota but if it comes out as a Scion, Toyota or Subaru, I don't care. I want the vehicle for what it is not the badge.
10-18-10, 09:06 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
My first impression, looking at it, from several angles, is that it resembles the Nissan 370Z. The rear trunk-lid, though, is somewhat stubbier then the Z's.
10-18-10, 09:08 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota probably needs a car like this more than Scion, which already has the
tC sport coupe. And this car will (likely) sell in higher price-range than the tC, as you and MPLexus have already noted.
tC sport coupe. And this car will (likely) sell in higher price-range than the tC, as you and MPLexus have already noted.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-18-10 at 09:12 AM.
10-18-10, 11:31 AM
#25
On the boards? I don't know. I am more worried about the general public since Toyota's willingness to produce this vehicle is a huge step in the first place, and I'm just worried that a Scion-branded product may not have the mass appeal that a Toyota one would.
I think it has a lot to do with how customers will buy the car. I am anticipating that the FT86 will be popular with a lot of younger buyers and 20-something males, but probably also men in their 30s, and maybe even older for those wanting a toy. Scion is synonymous with quirky, hip and cheap transportation...hardly the right fit for a stripped down RWD sports car that will be priced from the mid 20s. I am not saying that Toyota's image is so much better but they have a history with sports cars - Celica, AE86, Supra, MR2, etc. People remember those cars and recall Toyota's former glory days - probably more people than those who know that Scion is a subsidy of Toyota.
To internet enthusiasts and some people, Scion's affiliation with Toyota is obvious. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people that I have met who have no idea what Scion is or that Toyota is their parent company. Considering that, why take a chance in launching such an influential/important car under a brand that is 7 years old and sells a miniscule number of cars to a relatively niche market?
Agreed.
I agree with that last part as well - to me, it doesn't matter. I'll probably buy one regardless of who makes it.
That said, when dealers were informed that the FT86 would be sold as a Scion, I am told that there was literally outrage among those groups. Toyota has hinted at a sports car for years while Nissan, Mazda and Ford have eaten up the market. Year after year Toyota tells dealers the same thing, "We have plans for such a car, and continue to study the feasibility of producing it but at this time there is no plan to produce it." People are continually walking into Toyota dealers and asking when the next Supra comes out, and sales staff stands there with their hands in the air.
Then, along comes the FT86 and dealers rejoice thinking, "Here comes our sports car - FINALLY!" It's shown in concept form as a Toyota, gets press and publicity as a Toyota, and then at the last minute they switch the logo to Scion. For most of these dealerships, Scion is nearly worthless. The only products worth anything have been the 1gen xB and tC. They sell more Highlanders in a week than they sell tCs in a month. Scion is something they were forced to deal with and so far, it really has not paid off. Now, the car they have been desperately hoping for is being delivered under a brand that many of them despise.
I worked at a Toyota dealership when Scion was implemented and there was a lot of pushback with the brand. Toyota ended up saying, "Ok, you don't have a choice" and dealers had to swallow their pride and deal with selling cheap econo cars from a brand that meant nothing to anyone. Fast forward 7 years and Toyota has broken their promise - the products follow the typical life cycle of any other Toyota and they have failed to live up to the expectations that were originally set. The tC has been consistent and added a reasonable volume, but if you ask almost any dealership, they'll tell you they'd rather have the tC branded as a Toyota Celica and to drop the xD and xB.
Many of these dealers also feel that Toyota needs the image boost that the FT86 would bring - moreso than Scion which is already seen as hip and trendy. They haven't sold a Celica or MR2 in years, the Supra in more than a decade, and (believe it or not, as mentioned above) have to keep telling customers that there is no sports car in the pipeline. Dealers were excited about the FT and I am sure that, to an extent, they still are, but branding the car with a Scion logo is not what many of them wanted or anticipated...and I understand why.
Resale might be affected but I don't see why it would be when they are serviced by Toyota anyway. It's not like Toyota will crumble and you have no dealership support but resale is dependent on the market and if everyone starts to sell their Scion FT-86s for cheap so will everyone else.
I agree 25k+ for a Scion is not the price point they want to target that brand for but that doesn't really have anything to do with how customers buy the car. From a buyers experience there's no difference because you're already in a Toyota dealer anyway when you're buying a Scion.
I agree 25k+ for a Scion is not the price point they want to target that brand for but that doesn't really have anything to do with how customers buy the car. From a buyers experience there's no difference because you're already in a Toyota dealer anyway when you're buying a Scion.
To internet enthusiasts and some people, Scion's affiliation with Toyota is obvious. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people that I have met who have no idea what Scion is or that Toyota is their parent company. Considering that, why take a chance in launching such an influential/important car under a brand that is 7 years old and sells a miniscule number of cars to a relatively niche market?
I've stated it before more people might enjoy the Scion sales policy for a vehicle like this.
I just think there's too much hate going on towards Scion and the FT-86 being badged a Scion and for no personal reasons.
You're not a dealer, so why do you care? Honda/Acura were bickering over who would get the S2000 and NSX in the states but do enthusiasts care? No.
I agree strategically for Toyota they should sell it as a Toyota but if it comes out as a Scion, Toyota or Subaru, I don't care. I want the vehicle for what it is not the badge.
You're not a dealer, so why do you care? Honda/Acura were bickering over who would get the S2000 and NSX in the states but do enthusiasts care? No.
I agree strategically for Toyota they should sell it as a Toyota but if it comes out as a Scion, Toyota or Subaru, I don't care. I want the vehicle for what it is not the badge.
That said, when dealers were informed that the FT86 would be sold as a Scion, I am told that there was literally outrage among those groups. Toyota has hinted at a sports car for years while Nissan, Mazda and Ford have eaten up the market. Year after year Toyota tells dealers the same thing, "We have plans for such a car, and continue to study the feasibility of producing it but at this time there is no plan to produce it." People are continually walking into Toyota dealers and asking when the next Supra comes out, and sales staff stands there with their hands in the air.
Then, along comes the FT86 and dealers rejoice thinking, "Here comes our sports car - FINALLY!" It's shown in concept form as a Toyota, gets press and publicity as a Toyota, and then at the last minute they switch the logo to Scion. For most of these dealerships, Scion is nearly worthless. The only products worth anything have been the 1gen xB and tC. They sell more Highlanders in a week than they sell tCs in a month. Scion is something they were forced to deal with and so far, it really has not paid off. Now, the car they have been desperately hoping for is being delivered under a brand that many of them despise.
I worked at a Toyota dealership when Scion was implemented and there was a lot of pushback with the brand. Toyota ended up saying, "Ok, you don't have a choice" and dealers had to swallow their pride and deal with selling cheap econo cars from a brand that meant nothing to anyone. Fast forward 7 years and Toyota has broken their promise - the products follow the typical life cycle of any other Toyota and they have failed to live up to the expectations that were originally set. The tC has been consistent and added a reasonable volume, but if you ask almost any dealership, they'll tell you they'd rather have the tC branded as a Toyota Celica and to drop the xD and xB.
Many of these dealers also feel that Toyota needs the image boost that the FT86 would bring - moreso than Scion which is already seen as hip and trendy. They haven't sold a Celica or MR2 in years, the Supra in more than a decade, and (believe it or not, as mentioned above) have to keep telling customers that there is no sports car in the pipeline. Dealers were excited about the FT and I am sure that, to an extent, they still are, but branding the car with a Scion logo is not what many of them wanted or anticipated...and I understand why.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 10-18-10 at 11:35 AM.
10-18-10, 12:22 PM
#26
Pole Position
I cant wait for this to come out
I think itll def be badged a scion as thats whats been circulatiing the interwebs
HOWEVER if you live outside the US itll be badged a Toyota, unless they decide to bring the scion brand overseas. But either way, i dont see what the big deal about this car being badged a scion vs toyota
Now the Subie version should be cool as chit, im excited to see their design language
I think itll def be badged a scion as thats whats been circulatiing the interwebs
HOWEVER if you live outside the US itll be badged a Toyota, unless they decide to bring the scion brand overseas. But either way, i dont see what the big deal about this car being badged a scion vs toyota
Now the Subie version should be cool as chit, im excited to see their design language
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