New Sonata on BBS LM's...SiCk!!!
08-03-10, 01:06 PM
#31
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I don't think its good looking either and much prefer the Altima, Fusion or Malibu to it in the looks department.
08-03-10, 02:06 PM
#32
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there was criticism of the IS when it first came out as well so it's all a matter of opinion.
design wise, the sonata yf surpasses the japanese in every sense u can imagine. It makes the current IS and GS look DATED.
Look at the front bumper, look at the grill, the hood, the slanted headlamps that go all the way up, look at the chrome accent between the hood and the fender and the way it sweeps into the upper quarter section.
look at the way the side sweep into the the tail lamps and the way the trunk lid and rear bumper integrates into it.
like it or not it takes asian design to a totally different level. This is great for consumers and up's the ante for toyo, nissan and honda.
design wise, the sonata yf surpasses the japanese in every sense u can imagine. It makes the current IS and GS look DATED.
Look at the front bumper, look at the grill, the hood, the slanted headlamps that go all the way up, look at the chrome accent between the hood and the fender and the way it sweeps into the upper quarter section.
look at the way the side sweep into the the tail lamps and the way the trunk lid and rear bumper integrates into it.
like it or not it takes asian design to a totally different level. This is great for consumers and up's the ante for toyo, nissan and honda.
08-03-10, 02:14 PM
#33
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i don't like the design overall, but i applaud hyundai for taking a sheet of metal, and pressing it into different shapes and dimensions, rather than making a sardine tin.
08-03-10, 04:47 PM
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How many have sampled the new Sonata at length?
On the outset, compared to a Camry and Accord, it seems to be quite competitive, with the engines standing out the most. Unfortunately, the vehicle, in my opinion, seems a bit too "me too" in substance. There is nothing extremely innovative or "first-class" about the design of the Sonata, which comes off as garish in real life situations. I have spoken with a Hyundai regional sales manager who has lamented to me that the design, while a bold effort to imitate the CLS, was accomplished and transposed much more gracefully and effortlessly with the Volkswagen "CC". Both of these vehicles were designed, drawn and brought to market at the roughly the same time, both inspired to be more affordable offspring of that Mercedes-Benz. The Hyundai simply seems less authentic than the Camry, which isn't trying to be something it's not. The "CC" gets by as more than just a lifeless clone as it shows a bit more character and flair in appearance and substance, with prices that can reach quite up into the sky.
On the outset, compared to a Camry and Accord, it seems to be quite competitive, with the engines standing out the most. Unfortunately, the vehicle, in my opinion, seems a bit too "me too" in substance. There is nothing extremely innovative or "first-class" about the design of the Sonata, which comes off as garish in real life situations. I have spoken with a Hyundai regional sales manager who has lamented to me that the design, while a bold effort to imitate the CLS, was accomplished and transposed much more gracefully and effortlessly with the Volkswagen "CC". Both of these vehicles were designed, drawn and brought to market at the roughly the same time, both inspired to be more affordable offspring of that Mercedes-Benz. The Hyundai simply seems less authentic than the Camry, which isn't trying to be something it's not. The "CC" gets by as more than just a lifeless clone as it shows a bit more character and flair in appearance and substance, with prices that can reach quite up into the sky.
there was criticism of the IS when it first came out as well so it's all a matter of opinion.
design wise, the sonata yf surpasses the japanese in every sense u can imagine. It makes the current IS and GS look DATED.
Look at the front bumper, look at the grill, the hood, the slanted headlamps that go all the way up, look at the chrome accent between the hood and the fender and the way it sweeps into the upper quarter section.
look at the way the side sweep into the the tail lamps and the way the trunk lid and rear bumper integrates into it.
like it or not it takes asian design to a totally different level. This is great for consumers and up's the ante for toyo, nissan and honda.
design wise, the sonata yf surpasses the japanese in every sense u can imagine. It makes the current IS and GS look DATED.
Look at the front bumper, look at the grill, the hood, the slanted headlamps that go all the way up, look at the chrome accent between the hood and the fender and the way it sweeps into the upper quarter section.
look at the way the side sweep into the the tail lamps and the way the trunk lid and rear bumper integrates into it.
like it or not it takes asian design to a totally different level. This is great for consumers and up's the ante for toyo, nissan and honda.
So does the new Sonata surpass the 5 Series and E Class in every way too? Does the new Sonata surpass every sedan on the market design-wise, excluding Italian sedans, the CLS, and the CC?
08-03-10, 06:54 PM
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While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
Last edited by Benwilliam; 08-03-10 at 06:59 PM.
08-03-10, 07:11 PM
#39
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I will agree. The current Hyundai styling direction lacks a coherent identity, it us simply a hodge-podge of different cues from a wide variety of other automakers.
While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
08-03-10, 08:26 PM
#40
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confused identity ? if the sonata design isn't new and original then I don't know what is.
I really don't see how it copies various other models, which other car has headlights that stretch up all the way to the mid section of the fenders ? which other car has a grill as wide and as triangular (upside down triangle) as the sonata? which other car has two creases that continue from the hood into the grille ?
I first saw this car at the 2009 LA car show and nothing about it made me think it was a copy...and it was the busiest booth at the show as well.... I guess their sales and customer satisfaction is going to have to speak for itself.
I really don't see how it copies various other models, which other car has headlights that stretch up all the way to the mid section of the fenders ? which other car has a grill as wide and as triangular (upside down triangle) as the sonata? which other car has two creases that continue from the hood into the grille ?
I first saw this car at the 2009 LA car show and nothing about it made me think it was a copy...and it was the busiest booth at the show as well.... I guess their sales and customer satisfaction is going to have to speak for itself.
I will agree. The current Hyundai styling direction lacks a coherent identity, it us simply a hodge-podge of different cues from a wide variety of other automakers.
While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
Last edited by mikemareen; 08-03-10 at 08:32 PM.
08-03-10, 09:17 PM
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confused identity ? if the sonata design isn't new and original then I don't know what is.
I really don't see how it copies various other models, which other car has headlights that stretch up all the way to the mid section of the fenders ? which other car has a grill as wide and as triangular (upside down triangle) as the sonata? which other car has two creases that continue from the hood into the grille ?
I first saw this car at the 2009 LA car show and nothing about it made me think it was a copy...and it was the busiest booth at the show as well.... I guess their sales and customer satisfaction is going to have to speak for itself.
I really don't see how it copies various other models, which other car has headlights that stretch up all the way to the mid section of the fenders ? which other car has a grill as wide and as triangular (upside down triangle) as the sonata? which other car has two creases that continue from the hood into the grille ?
I first saw this car at the 2009 LA car show and nothing about it made me think it was a copy...and it was the busiest booth at the show as well.... I guess their sales and customer satisfaction is going to have to speak for itself.
Lights:
Grill:
Last edited by Benwilliam; 08-03-10 at 09:20 PM.
08-03-10, 10:35 PM
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I will agree. The current Hyundai styling direction lacks a coherent identity, it us simply a hodge-podge of different cues from a wide variety of other automakers.
While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
While new vehicles from European automakers may be deemed too similar within the range and/or bland, the design langauge will not be mistaken for any other brand. A BMW is distinctively BMW, a Mercedes-Benz is quinessential Mercedes-Benz. A Hyundai/Kia, on the other hand, is a mashup from seemingly every other direction. This is not to say their vehicles look bland, dated, or forgivable, but they don't share a coherent identify in the same vein that a GM or Toyota mainstream vehicle would. Hyundai is, in my opinion, trying to push the boundary of extreme with their designs but has been coming off garish as they move forward. I predict that their current designs won't stand the test of time in quite the same light that a more conservative Toyota or Ford will, for example. I almost find Honda to be in the same boat as Hyundai, as well.
I know that the head designer of the Hyundai Group used to be employed by Audi in Ingolstadt and it's readily apparent to most anyone with eyes. Point is, the current Hyundai's may seem like a big step up for the brand, but what about when you put it in perspective and compare them to established segment leaders Toyota, Ford, GM, VW, etc.? The vehicles are still not surpassing those makers for all intents and purposes, even if they may be improvements from their previous itinerations. The perfect example would be to compare a Sonata to a "CC", which is built on a nearly half-decade old platform in itself. The latter still is a more solidly constructed vehicle for all intents and purposes, has higher levels of build quality, will stand the test of time better, undoubtedly have higher residual value, and feels better from behind the wheel. The Sonata is all new, the CC is just a new body on an old platform, yet it still fails to push the envelope forward in any substantial way. All of the fanfare from the automotive press fails to put the vehicle in perspective relative to the segment leaders. The Camry, for all the scoffs it gets from the automotive press, is still a wonderful automobile that does what it does right. What exacly is the new Sonata? A cheapened VW "CC" designed to have very low entry price? Point is, the vehicle is obviously built to a cost, but at least the Camry and Accord do nothing to try and hide this fact. The Sonata then has a confused identity.
Hyundai, like some other Korean companies, is pushing design to extreme levels to the point of being garish, brash, and gaudy.
Just a bit of clarification, but I believe Shreyer is head of design at Kia, while Mr. Oh is head of design at Hyundai. Hyundai's previous head of North American design has now gone to Mercedes to work in their North American design center. Mr. Oh is Hyundai's design director, Phillip A Zak (formely of GM Europe design) reports directly to him and he is in charge of North American design. Thomas Buerkle is head of Hyundai Europe design (formely from BMW). Zak was also a senior designer at GM North America during a short time in the 1990s. Even the designers that Hyundai has seems like a big hodge-podge of former designers from various competitors.
There was a lot of hype from Hyundai marketers and supporters online when he new Sonata debuted. Even for a short time on CL there was a rush of Hyundai supporters that praised the new Sonata sky high. A few of these supporters are still on CL.
Sales of the new Sonata started strong, and already have fallen below the 20K mark for several months. Despite all the problems Toyota had earlier this year, it still has not affected Camry sales that much. The Camry had double the sales of the Sonata last month for instance.
Many people don't want to talk about it or admit it, but I think this extreme push in design by Hyundai is related to management style of Hyundai and how the corporation is run in general, which is a dictatorial or authoritarian style. The incoherent identity of Hyundai models, the garishness of many of their new designs, and the brashness of their marketing (mainly their online marketing) is all a reflection of the authoritarian way the company is run.
The Sonata having a confused identity I think reflects Hyundai having a confused identity. Hyundai is so desperate to get ahead of the competition, that in their desperation they've started to slip and overlook quite a few things that are important for long-term success.
confused identity ? if the sonata design isn't new and original then I don't know what is.
I really don't see how it copies various other models, which other car has headlights that stretch up all the way to the mid section of the fenders ? which other car has a grill as wide and as triangular (upside down triangle) as the sonata? which other car has two creases that continue from the hood into the grille ?
I first saw this car at the 2009 LA car show and nothing about it made me think it was a copy...and it was the busiest booth at the show as well.... I guess their sales and customer satisfaction is going to have to speak for itself.
I really don't see how it copies various other models, which other car has headlights that stretch up all the way to the mid section of the fenders ? which other car has a grill as wide and as triangular (upside down triangle) as the sonata? which other car has two creases that continue from the hood into the grille ?
I first saw this car at the 2009 LA car show and nothing about it made me think it was a copy...and it was the busiest booth at the show as well.... I guess their sales and customer satisfaction is going to have to speak for itself.
08-03-10, 10:55 PM
#45
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I'm not going to beat up the Sonata too much for copying as most companies do it. Its very rare to see a true clean design. I do give them credit for trying, I mean its pretty amazing to see this one compared to the last one.
Like the Mazda grill, Toyota weird, Honda ugly, Mitsubishi ugly I just don't like the fish design. Sorry. Its odd as I liked it originally.
Like the Mazda grill, Toyota weird, Honda ugly, Mitsubishi ugly I just don't like the fish design. Sorry. Its odd as I liked it originally.