Question on IS-F price. Any input appreciated!
#16
Lexus Fanatic
So, in a nutshell, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out every last dollar on the wholesale-equation. Usually, the best and most sensible thing is to just negotiate the best deal (and out-the-door figure) you can....and don't go home and lose sleep over it.
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Not really. The "invoice" is not necesarily the true dealer cost from the manufacturer. A number of other factors are involved, including holdback fees and manufacturer-to-dealer payments that are often not known or publicized. Determining the dealer's TRUE cost can be very difficult....and, from the buyers' position, often doesn't have much bearing on the out-the-door price.
So, in a nutshell, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out every last dollar on the wholesale-equation. Usually, the best and most sensible thing is to just negotiate the best deal (and out-the-door figure) you can....and don't go home and lose sleep over it.
So, in a nutshell, you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out every last dollar on the wholesale-equation. Usually, the best and most sensible thing is to just negotiate the best deal (and out-the-door figure) you can....and don't go home and lose sleep over it.
#18
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (7)
imo, $65k otd is way too high. just go to edmunds.com and get the TMV, you should be within few hundreds of that estimate before TT&L.
fyi,i got my ISF "at invoice" plus TTL for $50k OTD with every option except the radar thingy, but there was a $5k rebate at that time. sticker was $62, edmund's invoice was $54, minus the $5k, made it $49 - plus TT&L.
so if that dealer does not come close to $55 OTD, i would say try my dealer in jersey, ask for gene moretti at 888-231-7460. you can use my name -jerry jacob (white ISF) and tell him you'll pay only the invoice. another member on CL did and payed the same amount I did back then.
fyi,i got my ISF "at invoice" plus TTL for $50k OTD with every option except the radar thingy, but there was a $5k rebate at that time. sticker was $62, edmund's invoice was $54, minus the $5k, made it $49 - plus TT&L.
so if that dealer does not come close to $55 OTD, i would say try my dealer in jersey, ask for gene moretti at 888-231-7460. you can use my name -jerry jacob (white ISF) and tell him you'll pay only the invoice. another member on CL did and payed the same amount I did back then.
#19
Tofu, have you considered checking other dealers within a certain mile radius? I see there are 78 IS-Fs nationwide. Dealers want to move the cars, the 2011s are just around the corner and only two days left before the month ends. As some of the members said, the out the door price is high. When I was looking for a car last week some Lexus dealers were willing to negotiate on the IS-Fs they had on the lot.
I am sure if you make some phone calls you might find the right car for the right price.
As rominl said, go test drive both cars. They are both excellent machines. I think it all comes down to personal preference. Good luck!!
I am sure if you make some phone calls you might find the right car for the right price.
As rominl said, go test drive both cars. They are both excellent machines. I think it all comes down to personal preference. Good luck!!
#20
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey guys, thank you all for your input and help.
sorry i haven't responded. i've been busy and haven't had the chance to look through all of the replies.
i'll definitely be looking at both the cars thoroughly before the purchase (int/ext, testdrive) before i make my decision. i had the chance to look at the interior of my friend's e92 m3 (sedan) this afternoon and i definitely see what you guys mean when you say the F's interior is significantly better.
thank you all for your input. i'll update you guys when i make my decision and possible purchase.
sorry i haven't responded. i've been busy and haven't had the chance to look through all of the replies.
i'll definitely be looking at both the cars thoroughly before the purchase (int/ext, testdrive) before i make my decision. i had the chance to look at the interior of my friend's e92 m3 (sedan) this afternoon and i definitely see what you guys mean when you say the F's interior is significantly better.
thank you all for your input. i'll update you guys when i make my decision and possible purchase.
#21
The average IS-F (which I assume you are loooking at) lists in the low 60s, so 65K out the door after taxes, tags, etc.....is probably in the ballpark. Given the choice between the M3 and IS-F, I'd probably go with the Lexus simply based on reliability issues alone. But before you sign for an IS-F, check it out (with proper tire pressures) on a rough road, and make sure you can tolerate the ride. This car has a VERY stiff suspension by sedan standards, particularly the rear suspension, and it slams and tosses the rear end of the car up and down on sharp bumps and frost heaves. The M3 is a little better, but still on the stiff side.
Also, if you have a M3 with EDC it is NOT stiff at all. It actually rides better than the 335i with sport package. Stop saying the M3 is on the stiff side, it is not always the case.
I prefer the M3 interior but I do too find it a bit lacking on the torque side, but this is coming from a 335i. The new Navi in the M3 beats the IS-F handily. Also the Ipod controls are much better as well. The IS-F also does not come with fold down rear seats, this can be a deal breaker for many. M3 has much more space and configurable options.
#22
Lexus Champion
M3 reliability issues?
Also, if you have a M3 with EDC it is NOT stiff at all. It actually rides better than the 335i with sport package. Stop saying the M3 is on the stiff side, it is not always the case.
I prefer the M3 interior but I do too find it a bit lacking on the torque side, but this is coming from a 335i. The new Navi in the M3 beats the IS-F handily. Also the Ipod controls are much better as well. The IS-F also does not come with fold down rear seats, this can be a deal breaker for many. M3 has much more space and configurable options.
Also, if you have a M3 with EDC it is NOT stiff at all. It actually rides better than the 335i with sport package. Stop saying the M3 is on the stiff side, it is not always the case.
I prefer the M3 interior but I do too find it a bit lacking on the torque side, but this is coming from a 335i. The new Navi in the M3 beats the IS-F handily. Also the Ipod controls are much better as well. The IS-F also does not come with fold down rear seats, this can be a deal breaker for many. M3 has much more space and configurable options.
There are multiple threads on every BMW forum that talk about issues with the M3. There is zero argument that the M3 is less reliable than the F.
I'd agree that the M3 ride is not that harsh.
It is laughable to suggest that the M3 interior is better in any way. Unless you are looking at "owners choice" with the custom options for the additional $5K it isn't close.
The new Navi in the M3 does not in any way beat the Lexus Navi. The Lexus navigation is still much better in my '08 F than my '10 X5. The new Idrive, overall, is better than the Lexus touchscreen system because the F is so limited by all of the ghey nannies.
Agreed, that the Ipod controls are better and that the lack of fold down rear seats is a mistake. The M3 certainly does not have "much more space".
The M3 has many more configurable options but it is also significantly overpriced for the marginal handling advantage that it carries.
#23
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
as much as i like the m3 i can't say the nav is better than that in lexus at all, far from. even the improved 09+ setup is still nothing like the lexus setup, from features to details and usage. if anything, you can use the nav on bmw when driving i will give you that.
#24
Why is my personal opinion laughable? I don't like the shape of the Lexus Dash on the driver's side. It's a huge blank area. I don't like the center console, it is too busy. The buttons are too huge. It's not clean and simple to me. Some people think BMW looks too old and simple, some like how it's simple. Just like I think the Lexus is too busy and buttons are too huge.
I like BMW's amber lights (reminds me of a Type R tbh).
^ Oh yes, and RED can be sexy.
see wallpaper sizes here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55139
The new Navi in the M3 does not in any way beat the Lexus Navi. The Lexus navigation is still much better in my '08 F than my '10 X5. The new Idrive, overall, is better than the Lexus touchscreen system because the F is so limited by all of the ghey nannies.
I like how you can search the POI names by the many categories. I like how you can choose route list. I like the 3D views. I like the satellite imagery. Perhaps I don't know how to use the Navi properly, how do you switch back and forth between a list of your ENTIRE route list (route information in bmw) in the Lexus?
I get plenty of seat time in our IS250 but I can't figure that out. Can you point me how to do this? Does this exist? Basically a turn by turn list on the Navi. Where you can review the route while driving or before driving.
Oh yes, I also love how I can go to google maps and send the directions right to my car. That feature is awesome. Also, real time traffic, it wasn't available on our IS when we bought it (2008) and it's only available now on XM enabled systems, correct?
Please elaborate on why you believe the IS Navi is better than the BMW rather than saying it is just better. The few friends I have with both Lexus and BMW agree that BMW's Navi system is better. My fiance being one of them. And Rominl, Steve Noh being another one (you know him he has a RX and had an E92 335i).
Agreed, that the Ipod controls are better and that the lack of fold down rear seats is a mistake. The M3 certainly does not have "much more space".
The M3 has many more configurable options but it is also significantly overpriced for the marginal handling advantage that it carries.
The M3 has many more configurable options but it is also significantly overpriced for the marginal handling advantage that it carries.
Last edited by OC 335d; 08-01-10 at 12:34 AM.
#25
The Lexus is an IS250 that I have probably driven for more than 10,000 miles, since 2007.
#26
^ oh yes, and I LOVE the amber lighting, especially the accent lighting underneath door lighting on the E92 interiors. Rominl can comment on that I'm sure.
(I need to find a pic on how it looks while sitting in the car)
(I need to find a pic on how it looks while sitting in the car)
Last edited by OC 335d; 08-01-10 at 12:45 AM.
#27
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SF
Posts: 6,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is getting way off topic but I feel like I am somewhat qualified to chime in here.
both navi system are garbage compare to the google map on my Driod. searching for something on I-drive is just plain painful, and I can never ever find what I want. In fact, I don't remember using the navigation at all. I usually end up giving up before I can ever find something.
Our LS has lexus link or whatever feature that they can push the address in. Kinda cool but haven't used that for a while either.
both navi system are garbage compare to the google map on my Driod. searching for something on I-drive is just plain painful, and I can never ever find what I want. In fact, I don't remember using the navigation at all. I usually end up giving up before I can ever find something.
Our LS has lexus link or whatever feature that they can push the address in. Kinda cool but haven't used that for a while either.
#28
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SF
Posts: 6,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed, that the Ipod controls are better and that the lack of fold down rear seats is a mistake. The M3 certainly does not have "much more space".
The M3 has many more configurable options but it is also significantly overpriced for the marginal handling advantage that it carries.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
I wasn't discussing reliability issues in this thread.
Whether it is ALWAYS the case or not remains to be seen....I can't comment on that. It was DEFINITELY the case in the extended-length test drives I did of both models. The M3's ride is fine on glass-smooth pavement, but hit some bumps and you'll know it....and much more so with the IS-F. The M3 does outhandle the 335's Sport Package, even on the street, but the difference would probably be more noticeable on a track (which I admittedly did not have access to) than it was on the street. So, for everyday driving, IMO, it's still the 335....I'm not going to change my mind on that.
The M3 powerplant is definitely higher revs (8000 RPM redline on my test car) and HP, but the 335i beats it in everyday-driving, low-RPM torque. That is one of the main reasons I would prefer it if I was getting a BMW.
Back to the IS-F (thread topic). Your comment about the non-folding rear seats is well-taken......but that is (probably) done to increase the stiffness of the rear unibody frame. The non-folding seats allow a metal crossbrace in that area to resist torsional (twisting) of the frame. However, I question how much that extra stiffness is really needed, since the rear suspension in the IS-F, even independent of the unibody frame, is already noticeably stiffer than the M3 (which is saying something). The word from Lexus (see the earlier posts) is that the next IS-F, from owner complaints, will ease up on that suspension stiffness a little.
Also, if you have a M3 with EDC it is NOT stiff at all. It actually rides better than the 335i with sport package. Stop saying the M3 is on the stiff side, it is not always the case.
I prefer the M3 interior but I do too find it a bit lacking on the torque side, but this is coming from a 335i. The new Navi in the M3 beats the IS-F handily. Also the Ipod controls are much better as well. The IS-F also does not come with fold down rear seats, this can be a deal breaker for many. M3 has much more space and configurable options.
Back to the IS-F (thread topic). Your comment about the non-folding rear seats is well-taken......but that is (probably) done to increase the stiffness of the rear unibody frame. The non-folding seats allow a metal crossbrace in that area to resist torsional (twisting) of the frame. However, I question how much that extra stiffness is really needed, since the rear suspension in the IS-F, even independent of the unibody frame, is already noticeably stiffer than the M3 (which is saying something). The word from Lexus (see the earlier posts) is that the next IS-F, from owner complaints, will ease up on that suspension stiffness a little.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-01-10 at 04:03 AM.