C&D: Audi RS5 vs. BMW M3 vs. Cadillac CTS-V (Update with much better MT review)
07-25-10, 04:22 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by CDNROCKIES
I would assume that it's because we're talking 2 Doors vs. 4 doors?
Originally Posted by AlexusAnja
No F and GTR because this was fight of the 2-doors.
Thank you both, this makes sense now.
07-25-10, 04:36 PM
#19
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Is it me, or is BMW and Driver, excuse me, Car and Driver the reason why this whole "BMW 3er is the benchmark" myth is so rabid on the entire Internet?
Before I am criticized, let me say that I think the 3er is an excellent car. It's clearly the car to beat when it comes to driving dynamics - but that's about it. In terms of general balance, a non-biased magazine might dare to claim that there are "better" cars out there like the A4 or C class, S40, IS etc., which are perhaps a tad less dynamically competent, but more comfortable or superior in other aspects: aspects that actually matter to most people out there rather than how quickly the steering response is or how fast the car is from 0-60, skidpad numbers etc.
There's no doubt in my mind, however, that the M3 is one amazing performer and definitely the benchmark in its class when it comes to purist driving pleasure etc. At the same time, we know that Cadillac is back for business and the CTS-V coupe should be amazing.
I'm surprised the RS5 is being criticized left and right. From a styling point of view, I find it to be the most gorgeous car here. From a performance point of view, at least for my tastes, this machine should be more than adequate to my needs. What seems to be forgotten is that the RS5 is based on the FWD A5 with quattro setup. Obviously this setup will be "slightly inferior" to a pure RWD setup a la BMW M3/CTS-V coupe, I should imagine.
Before I am criticized, let me say that I think the 3er is an excellent car. It's clearly the car to beat when it comes to driving dynamics - but that's about it. In terms of general balance, a non-biased magazine might dare to claim that there are "better" cars out there like the A4 or C class, S40, IS etc., which are perhaps a tad less dynamically competent, but more comfortable or superior in other aspects: aspects that actually matter to most people out there rather than how quickly the steering response is or how fast the car is from 0-60, skidpad numbers etc.
There's no doubt in my mind, however, that the M3 is one amazing performer and definitely the benchmark in its class when it comes to purist driving pleasure etc. At the same time, we know that Cadillac is back for business and the CTS-V coupe should be amazing.
I'm surprised the RS5 is being criticized left and right. From a styling point of view, I find it to be the most gorgeous car here. From a performance point of view, at least for my tastes, this machine should be more than adequate to my needs. What seems to be forgotten is that the RS5 is based on the FWD A5 with quattro setup. Obviously this setup will be "slightly inferior" to a pure RWD setup a la BMW M3/CTS-V coupe, I should imagine.
07-25-10, 09:41 PM
#23
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07-25-10, 10:08 PM
#24
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To C&D the M3 coupe is so invincible that it will also beat the M6 in its next comparo. Throw in the 911, CL63, JKR and Vantage and the result still won't change. 
It's interesting that C&D is taking a completely different approach from Motor Trend, which recently compared a CTS-V sedan against the BMW M5 and Merc. E63. MT fairly concluded that the M5, while still great is no longer a match against the Caddy. The E63, being the most recently designed model, just barely edges out the Caddy.
Jon
It's interesting that C&D is taking a completely different approach from Motor Trend, which recently compared a CTS-V sedan against the BMW M5 and Merc. E63. MT fairly concluded that the M5, while still great is no longer a match against the Caddy. The E63, being the most recently designed model, just barely edges out the Caddy.
Jon
07-27-10, 09:44 AM
#28
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Well, the M3 clearly is not an overrated car on the track, where it is a superb vehicle. I've said, though, several times in the past, and still feel this way, that, for street/daily driving, the 335i is a better all-around car, dollar-for-dollar, particularly in the 335ix AWD version. The M3 has a higher-winding, higher-HP engine and STIFF underpinnings that are well-suited for a track, but the twin-turbo 335i actually beats it in the torque figure for acceleration, and also has a superb ride/handling combination, even with the Sport Package and 35-series tires. And the 335i's price, of course, substantially undercuts that of the M3. I have not sampled the latest single-turbo 335, but still strongly feel that way about the twin-turbo version.
07-27-10, 11:32 AM
#29
Well, the M3 clearly is not an overrated car on the track, where it is a superb vehicle. I've said, though, several times in the past, and still feel this way, that, for street/daily driving, the 335i is a better all-around car, dollar-for-dollar, particularly in the 335ix AWD version. The M3 has a higher-winding, higher-HP engine and STIFF underpinnings that are well-suited for a track, but the twin-turbo 335i actually beats it in the torque figure for acceleration, and also has a superb ride/handling combination, even with the Sport Package and 35-series tires. And the 335i's price, of course, substantially undercuts that of the M3. I have not sampled the latest single-turbo 335, but still strongly feel that way about the twin-turbo version.
cars like these are about extreme, and yes, i can easily say that even on my kind of street driving, the m3 is still better than the 335 i have driven, from steering ratio to turn in/out. is it necessary? absolutely not. is it more fun? absolutely yes. tq? yes, 335 has more on paper maybe, but as i always say, if you put the m3 in the right gear and punch it, it pulls crazy. m3 has a high rev engine so you have to drive it correctly, unlike most cars.
cars like these, best bang for the bucks is not a term applicable imho. same with rs5 or isf or c63. it's about the extra, it's about that marginal gain that you feel.
it's the same as saying what's the point of s class when there is avalon with plenty of space and decent power, all comes in at fraction of the cost of s class. yup, when you are at that segment, it's all about the extra
07-27-10, 11:51 AM
#30
Lexus Champion
