MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

It's no surprise that I dislike the HS 250h - I have been a harsh critic since the beginning and still feel the same way. Now that the car has had a chance to "settle-in" and find it's place in the market, it seems that I am not the only one who dislikes this car. At it's launch, Toyota and Lexus officials predicted that 30,000 HS 250hs would find homes with American consumers every year. Not long after, they narrowed that prediction to 25,000 and then 20,000 units...not a good way to launch a car that is "the first dedicated luxury hybrid in the world".

Fast forward six months and Lexus has sold a laughable 6,500 HSs so far in 2010 and sales for last month were a paltry 603 units. It is worth mentioning that after two recalls, sales in the most recent months have dropped sharply- to under 1,000 units - and sales prior were not that bad (around 1,200 units). Multiplying the first half results would yield a sales volume of roughly 13,000 units but I think that might be a little too generous. I would not be surprised to see the HS rack up 10,000-11,000 units in sales this year, which would be ...embarassing.

Now, up until this point, the HS has been trying to scrape out market share among it's own brothers- the IS and ES- as well as a few others, but that is all about to change. The dynamic and exciting CT200h will hit the market later this year as does the Lincoln MKZ hybrid- a car with similar features and pricing, but MPG that embarasses the HS without question.

IMO, the HS was born fighting an uphill battle: Toyota platform, outdated Toyota powertrain, Toyota styling, quirky and un-Lexuslike interior, and priced alongside the IS and ES which are some of Lexus most successful models. Now the new CT will be hitting dealers with superior MPG and (arguably superior) styling, design, packaging, and detailing. Lexus clearly has a problem on their hands with the HS 250h- what is the best way to solve it? Drop the HS? Drastically redesign the car at the refresh? Drop a more competitive powertrain under the hood?

What are your thoughts?

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

If they keep hybrid powertrains out of the IS and ES lines, then I could still justify a hybrid sedan smaller than the GS. I prefer the CT as well but hatches don't typically sell well in the US. I think a refresh/redesign with a powertrain that at least rivals the Fusion/MKZ fuel economy and makes it easier on the eyes would make it more successful

Or they could introduce a 3rd Gen ISh and call the HS a one and done model (assuming the passenger space is better in the next gen IS)

LexFather

Before I start everyone please keep it civil and be mindful there are many HS owners on this site HAPPY with their purchase.

What the HS needs is higher gas prices . The HS is a great driving FWD car from Lexus, nothing like driving the FWD ES. However its wrapped in an exterior that most don't like.

I think the price is really tough to swallow for people. It STARTS at 35k and hits 45k loaded. Lexus has swung and missed before but outside of the sportcross which was canned, they usually get it completely right the 2nd time around. I think this will happen with the 2HS.

The HS is in a tough position. While it boasts it is the first luxury only hybrid it also can fall on this same boast. If people feel the MPG is not that much of a jump, the car has to rely on other merits to sell. I think we all were not exactly blown away by the 35 MPG rating and that it uses the old 2.4.

The recall simply was the last thing a not so well received model needed. HS sales were STOPPED for the last half of the month.

We have discussed this before. I feel the price, exterior looks and relatively stable gas prices really hurt this cars chances.

I would like to see the HS line expand to wagon, coupe as well next gen and be the hybrid lineup within the other hybrids Lexus offers. I would like to see them taut the Euro handling of the car as well. The next HS will likely be a 40-45 MPG car as well.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

I think a hybrid powertrain is a must-have for the next gen IS and ES. Not only do I think they would be very popular in terms of sales, but customers are literally expecting them based on my experience.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

Good point, most of the one's found on the lots are usually optioned up to 40k too. You can get a lot of car for $40k.

LexFather

Let me also say I don't think Lexus is too concerned about the HS not meeting sales goals as this was never going to be a volume seller even at 24k units a year. I believe forecasters based the sales goal mostly on speculation that gas prices would rise. That didn't happen. I am positive if gas was around $4.00 a gallon again and climbing this car would be selling better. Again since the HS was mostly advertised based on MPG and technology well with gas stable, the HS has to turn to its tech to sell and there are very few people interested in it.

We also have to be mindful of changing CAFE standards. With the CT coming Lexus with the HS and RX 450h might be able to claim they are the most fuel efficient luxury brand in the near future.

Exactly, most are 40k and we are all aware of what the competition offers. You can buy anything from a V-8 Genesis to a RX 350 for that price to a TL SHAWD to a CTS.

RXSF

Wasnt there some sort of goal to have a hybrid for every model by 2020? If that were the case, then these dedicated hybrid models, especially the HS, are just redudant and are created as a type of "mid solution" until Lexus can produce a hybrid for every model. I think there will be a 2HS and hopefully, it will stay at the same price even with inflation but look better and have at least 40mpg (though I guess we wont know until the new camry hybrid comes out). However, when the IS and ES hybrids come out, then the HS will likely be dropped.

The other question is whether or not the HS steals sales from the IS and ES. If it does not, then the HS isnt entirely a failure. Lexus adds another thousand units in sales in their three prong approach to the entry level segment (soon to be 4 prong approach). In theory, the HS was a great idea that was executed incorrectly.

Perhaps they should have just made one model name (HS or CT) and then have a 5 door and 4 door option.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

I still see a lot of them on the road around here with new plates

Me personally, I think the "general" public (not enthusiast like us who dissect a car's spec down to the nuts and bolts) who's buying this car because they want a hybrid that is more luxurious than the prius = HS250.

SLegacy99

Its seems that with the Camry, HS, and Highlander hybrids really lagging behind it is hard to keep Toyota in the esteem of being the leader in hybrids. They really need to update their tech. in these vehicles to be on par with the rising competition.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

Completely agree.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

in short, i still think hs is a car that doesn't make sense. it's stepping on too many toes of its own (other lexus vehicles) and its performance is nothing that impressive to justify its cost. on the other hand, i probably have a bit higher hope on the ct

i agree gas price has something to do with the slow sales on the hs, but still i think the car itself is somewhat of a problem. and no matter how i see it, missing the sales goal by this big of a margin is a big problem. it doesn't have to be their main goal (thank god it's not), but it's a big target miss by lexus

LexFather

To me if the ES missed sales targets by 50% like say how the current TL is doing then it is a tremendous issue since these cars are THE volume sedan sellers (and in the TL case the best selling vehicle they are supposed to see car or truck).

The HS is missing sales goals but since it is a new model it simply is adding to the Lexus bottom line in regards to sales one way or the other. The ES and IS are still selling solidly which also shows us there was minimal product cannibalization.

Lexus was the only luxury brand with 2 distinct vehicles in the same price range and now have 3 with the HS.

I've speculated that maybe Lexus will do something like this next go round

HS luxury entry level
IS sport luxury entry level

ES (moves up) mid luxury
GS sport luxury mid (can now get more sporty)

LS luxury (with the sport model)

Habious

I don't quite get the market for it (and I know for sure that I'm not it).

Seems to me that MOST (not all, mind you) people are one of two types...

A) "I want something as fuel-efficient as possible because I want to save money"
These people will NOT be spending $40K+ on a car...any car.

B) "I have no issue at all spending $40K on a "good" car".
These people don't have "fuel efficiency" as their top priority when car-shopping.

I had my SC430 at the dealership for a like 4 days last month (rear tires...4 days for rear tires...but, that's another thread), and I had the opportunity to drive an HS250h in the real world for those 4 days.

Yeah, it was nicer than any American rental car I've driven. And yeah, it's a pretty nice car overall. But, for $40K+, I want either more power (when I step on the gas, I want the car to GO...not "consider the possibility of, at some point the near-future, accelerating") or I want more cabin space, or I want more luxury...etc.

My wife really liked it...until she heard the price.

40 grand buys a whole lotta car these days. And I think a lot of people get "A lot of people want Hybrids" confused with "The government would like more people to drive Hybrids".

I8ABMR

funny how they rejoiced this vehicle and how it was claimed to be so much better than the other hybrids on the market, and how it would out sell other cars like it. WRONG!.
The car slots into the market very poorly. Its a little of this and a little of that. Hard to place it. I have still not had a chance to drive one, but I am sure its 100% Lexus quality. I just cant imagine dropping that much money on a hybrid car that is about the same size as the prius. Its got nicer paint, interior, better performance, better image, and better customer service that its Prius cousin, but is it worth another 15k???

LexFather

They who exactly?

What other cars are like it exactly that have been sold in the past year like the HS?

Do tell.