shyguy16

your location says phillipines but your education is very "western".
are you originally from elsewhere and then transplanted?

CDNROCKIES

Unions have no purpose in today's NA market, other than to protect the weak. Quality workers pay funds to support the bottom of the barrel workers that prefer to do less and ride on everyone else's coat tails.

Somebody else brought up construction unions, but an even bigger issue are the Teacher's unions. Teachers that have no business being in schools and dealing with children continue to be employed because the union has grown so powerful that many school boards are unable or afraid to terminate useless employees.

If you suck at your job, you should lose it. The only purpose of unions is to keep bad employees on the payroll at everyone else's expense.

venom21

I don't want to get into a political debate so I'll just state that I consider myself quite liberal and pro-union, but having said that, the way the UAW is going about this is ridiculous.

AlexusAnja

Unions had a place in the world back in the 40's when work conditions, labor, and conditions in life for some industries just did not meet the minimum standards for human life. Shops were dangerous, pay was crap, management didn't give a rats **** about their employees, so Unions needed to be formed to get their fair share. It was neede back then.

Nowadays with the fast pace of news getting out, bad PR, etc. that a company would get if they did not make conditions good, would cause a company to literrally crumble under their feet. So, the use of Unions to get their employees 5-6% raises, when then national avearge is about 3% and inflation 4% or so, is seem by the general public as just an entity that doesn't have a place in our world any more.

Och

iTrader: (3)

In todays society, unions in the shape and form as they exist TODAY, are all bad.

I will not argue with you, there was a time and place in history when unions were needed - when they brought important changes to wages, work and safety conditions, etc. Todays unions are a bunch of corrupt organizations who only care about collection their dues, and union members/workers only purpose is to milk their employers into as much overtime as possible. They serve no purpose in todays society.


I am a construction business owner, and you're wrong. First of all, residential housing construction is mostly non union, so you're right about what destroyed that part of construction industry. But a lot of construction industry is commercial construction and renovation, and the unions are solely responsible for destroying it.


You do bring some good points, but at this point I am and many others are so sick of UAW (and other unions) constant whining and sense of entitlement, that I just cant wait for them to die off and starve. I'll point my finger at them and laugh.

Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

As I said, unions have to adapt their thinking and adjust the way they do things, but they can and do still serve a purpose. Unfortunately, many of the employees elect leadership that maintains that the status quo should be that way, and that is where they are wrong. Protection of bad workers is wrong, too, but companies are becoming more stringent on this and are filing paperwork with a lot of backing so this is quickly becoming a non-issue. I know several people who still work in union shops and even the employees are tired of people who don't do anything being protected to the point where no one will back them up if they are fired for cause.

You yourself confirmed what I said, so that means I'm not wrong. Residential construction where you are may be mostly non union, but that's not the case everywhere. Those who are in the union dominated areas still are build by carpenters, electrical workers, and plumbers who are union labor. These men and women, many of whom I know, are at the forefront of changing the laws in the country to improve the way housing is built. You cannot say that they aren't because that would be false. Are they all wonderful? Of course not. There are bad apples in every bunch, but they do serve a purpose. And I have to disagree with you about commercial construction. The largest projects are controlled by big corporations who are not only union, but work extensively with the unions to ensure that the engineering that goes on as a building is being built are done properly. Every architect and designer thinks their ideas and designs are flawless, but things do come up and having someone who has been trained and learned from those who came before and not just the cookie cutter "we always do this" type of training is what separates the wheat from the chaff.

As an owner, I'm sure you've had to deal with employees who feel they are entitled to things they aren't, and that's unfortunate. It's not really fair to lump every employee into that, though, is it? I know as a business owner myself in numerous iterations I had similar issues. You work to train good employees, breed good habits, and create a positive environment. That's called leadership, and it's what many of today's employees don't have from their managers, supervisors, or in some cases, their union heads.

Thanks, mang.

I think that's very cold of you. Those who behave that way should certainly get their comeuppance, and I agree with you that it is coming, but to wish that on everyone is just beyond me. There are many good employees who work hard every day and don't deserve to be starving.

Big Mack

Och

iTrader: (3)

I really don't want to take this too far off topic - if you'd like to, you can make a thread in the debate forum, I'll be happy to debate it with you in depth.

But I still want to say that I am in NYC, and most (at least 95% by my estimate) of residential construction here is non union.


You're right, but when you're dealing with 6'-6", 350lb fat, lazy union slobs, whom only try to milk your projects into OT, and call the business agent for every little thing, you grow tired of the BS.

Trust me, I'm not the only one who feels like that. I bet 999 out of 1000 small construction company owners in NYC feels the same way.

Blackraven

I'm born in the Philippines and am currently living here.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

lol no sympathy for crybaby unions. Toyota has the right to setup shop and hire whoever it wants.

IS-SV

Regardless of the reasons, Toyota best business choice is to distance itself from the UAW.

jaseman

This couldn't be more on-point. Many of the labor laws we have today are a direct result of unions of the past. Without them, we would have little or no safety regulations, no set minimum wage, and many would still be working 12 hour days, 6 days a week or risk not having a job.

PR has nothing to do (at least to some extent) with how workers are treated. There are laws in place to insure a certain level of working conditions for most industries now a days. Though poor treatment of your workforce will definitely draw attention to you.

Unions do still serve some purpose though. They can ensure that employees don't get fired without just cause. They help ensure that workers with seniority are not passed over for promotion simply because another can be brought in for cheaper. They negotiate for benefits that employers might not otherwise offer to their workforce. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of room for abuse in the system. For example, some workers are allowed to progress based solely on seniority, rather than ability.


Unfortunately, some unions have lost their way over the years, and not progressed into the modern world. Some would rather force themselves down the throats of employers unyieldingly, rather than really sit and work with them for the benefit of both the workers AND the employer.


Had the UAW been willing to make concessions with the Detroit over the years, the Big 3 might not have gotten in trouble as deep as they did. So I gotta side with Toyota for the moment....

GS69

UAW Sets Sights on Organizing Non-Union Auto Plants

DETROIT — The United Auto Workers union is positioning itself as a car company partner rather than an adversary as it renews a campaign to sign up workers at U.S. plants owned by foreign-based car companies.

Yet Bob King, the union's president, says it will play tough with Toyota, Honda, BMW, Hyundai and others if they don't agree to secret ballot election principles that the union is backing. Companies that don't sign on to the principles will be branded in as human rights violators, King told an industry group last week.

The UAW has had little success the past 30 years in organizing workers at U.S. factories owned by Japanese, Korean and German auto companies. The companies built factories mainly in southern states such as Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi and Kentucky that are generally not as union-friendly as the UAW's home base around the Great Lakes. Many pay wages comparable to UAW-represented factories owned by Detroit automakers, but the foreign companies have avoided UAW work rules that can make plants less efficient.

King, speaking at the Automotive News World Congress in Detroit, said the union has learned from the Detroit companies' near-death experience and has eliminated inefficient work rules, job classifications and other issues that foreign companies have feared. Instead, he said the union understands how globalization has made it necessary for the UAW to help auto companies make money by being more competitive.

"We have paid a deep price for failing to learn this lesson quickly enough," King said. "The UAW has learned from the past, and we have embraced dramatic and radical change."

As General Motors, Chrysler and Ford faced severe financial problems in 2009, the union agreed under pressure from Congress to scrap the "jobs bank," in which laid-off workers got most of their pay indefinitely for doing nothing. Now they get some pay for up to 2 years but can lose it if they turn down a job at a different factory.

The union also has agreed to let the companies pay newly hired workers around $15 an hour, about half the hourly wage of a longtime UAW worker.

The union, though, still is seeking a "fair deal" with the companies, which means pay and benefits that can sustain a middle class lifestyle, King said.

The UAW wants the companies to agree to a secret ballot election without threatening workers that the factory will close if it's unionized, and to give the union equal campaign time to talk with workers, King said.

For those who don't agree, the UAW will hold demonstrations and campaign with consumers to make its human rights point, King said.

"I would be very, very concerned if I was an auto manufacturer, of having young people, college students, young college graduates, feel that I was a human rights violator," he said.

Toyota spokesman Mike Goss wouldn't comment on King's speech. Messages were left with BMW and Hyundai officials.

At the Detroit auto show earlier this week, a top Honda executive said the decision on joining the UAW is up to the workers.

"They've never seen the need, so far, to have anybody intervene on their behalf, work in partner with them, and I think that continues to be their decision, not ours," said John Mendel, executive vice president of sales for American Honda, which has several factories in Central Ohio.

The UAW is pushing for additional members as membership has fallen from a high of 1.5 million in 1979 to around 350,000.

IS-SV

Incredible death spiral, 75% decline in union membership from the peak.

CDNROCKIES

Not nearly fast enough S.

UAW should not exist. Likely would be many more happy people if they weren't being brainwashed by the union/cult leaders.

bagwell

UAW is an embarrassment to the United States IMO.