Toyota Tundra, meant to undermine U.S. trucks, has fallen short[
04-07-10, 01:33 AM
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Toyota Tundra, meant to undermine U.S. trucks, has fallen short[
Toyota Tundra, meant to undermine U.S. trucks, has fallen short
April 01, 2010|By Mark Phelan, McClatchy/Tribune News
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...oyota-tundra/2
The 2007 Toyota Tundra was among the most eagerly awaited new vehicles of the decade: a rising automaker's ultimate challenge to established competitors.
The Tundra struck at U.S. automakers' last stronghold: full-size pickups. It was widely expected to stomp them into dust.
Instead of a triumph that pounded the final nail into the coffins of Dodge, Ford and General Motors, Toyota's first full-size pickup has struggled.
Hampered by disappointing fuel economy and recalls, Tundra was among the first cracks in the veneer of invincibility that Toyota built over decades.
It is far from the cause of Toyota's woes, but the big pickup may be symptomatic of what went wrong when the automaker's headlong rush to boost sales met a management culture in which all major decisions were made in Japan.
The wheels didn't come off Toyota's revered engineering and quality-control systems the day the automaker decided to invest billions of dollars in its first full-size pickup, but the Tundra is a nexus of the automaker's current problems.
Toyota executives called Tundra the most important vehicle the automaker had ever introduced in the U.S., but the program stumbled from the start. Its disappointing fuel economy was a shock that undermined Toyota's image of technical superiority. It struggled to reach its sales goals and fell victim to early recalls. Tundra also is among the vehicles affected by both of Toyota's current unintended-acceleration recalls.
Toyota spent years developing its first true full-size pickup, tooling two assembly plants to build it. The current Tundra, which competes with the Chevrolet Silverado, Dodge Ram, Ford F-150 and Nissan Titan, went on sale in 2007. It replaced a smaller pickup of the same name introduced in 1999.
"The Tundra just didn't meet the expectations of people who owned F-150s and Silverados," said Stephanie Brinley of consultancy AutoPacific. "It wasn't the best in its class, and the Toyota halo didn't transfer from cars like the Camry."
While U.S. automakers had built a succession of poor cars in the 1980s and '90s, Chevy, Dodge and Ford pickup owners were generally satisfied.
In addition to underestimating the competition, Toyota's timing was lousy. After years on the upswing, the market for big pickups faltered just as the Tundra went on sale in 2007. Gasoline prices spiked to more than $3 as the Tundra hit the market from a national average of $2.11 a gallon.
Toyota invested more than $4.5 billion in the two Tundra assembly plants. It then spent an unspecified amount to retool its Princeton, Ind., plant to build other vehicles when Tundra sales sank to just 79,385 last year.
Carmakers don't disclose their costs to develop a vehicle, but it's safe to say engineering added at least $1.5 billion to the Tundra's tab.
Few of Toyota's customers were clamoring for a big pickup powered by a 5.7-liter, 381-horsepower V-8. Toyota built its reputation on small, reliable cars and high fuel economy.
"The decision to build the Tundra was driven more by Toyota's desire to be a full-line manufacturer than to please its existing customers," Brinley said.
The resources that produced benchmark vehicles such as the Prius and Camry were spread thin as the automaker pushed to become the world's largest automaker.
Toyota President Akio Toyoda admitted to Congress that the desire for growth led to Toyota's current woes, but the automaker's Japan-dominated culture created some of the Tundra's shortcomings, said Jim Hall, managing director of 2953 Analytics. "The cultural gap to develop a big pickup is huge for Japanese companies," he said.
Toyota spent more than a decade edging into the market with two smaller pickups before the 2007 Tundra, only to have its self-proclaimed most important vehicle ever for the U.S. run headlong into stronger competitors, a stumbling economy, a shift away from pickups and now the company's own quality problems.
With about $6 billion spent on the Tundra and more than 8 million vehicles now recalled for a variety of defects, it's worth asking whether Toyota's big pickup was a considered strategic move or a costly detour.
....
I have to agree that the current Tundra is a mistake.
However, the writer does fail to mention that the first year the current gen was on the market Toyota sold 196,000 units. 4k short of their 200k goal.
In comparison, the first gen Tundra was forcasted at 100k per year and was selling at 125k in the final year.
April 01, 2010|By Mark Phelan, McClatchy/Tribune News
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...oyota-tundra/2
The 2007 Toyota Tundra was among the most eagerly awaited new vehicles of the decade: a rising automaker's ultimate challenge to established competitors.
The Tundra struck at U.S. automakers' last stronghold: full-size pickups. It was widely expected to stomp them into dust.
Instead of a triumph that pounded the final nail into the coffins of Dodge, Ford and General Motors, Toyota's first full-size pickup has struggled.
Hampered by disappointing fuel economy and recalls, Tundra was among the first cracks in the veneer of invincibility that Toyota built over decades.
It is far from the cause of Toyota's woes, but the big pickup may be symptomatic of what went wrong when the automaker's headlong rush to boost sales met a management culture in which all major decisions were made in Japan.
The wheels didn't come off Toyota's revered engineering and quality-control systems the day the automaker decided to invest billions of dollars in its first full-size pickup, but the Tundra is a nexus of the automaker's current problems.
Toyota executives called Tundra the most important vehicle the automaker had ever introduced in the U.S., but the program stumbled from the start. Its disappointing fuel economy was a shock that undermined Toyota's image of technical superiority. It struggled to reach its sales goals and fell victim to early recalls. Tundra also is among the vehicles affected by both of Toyota's current unintended-acceleration recalls.
Toyota spent years developing its first true full-size pickup, tooling two assembly plants to build it. The current Tundra, which competes with the Chevrolet Silverado, Dodge Ram, Ford F-150 and Nissan Titan, went on sale in 2007. It replaced a smaller pickup of the same name introduced in 1999.
"The Tundra just didn't meet the expectations of people who owned F-150s and Silverados," said Stephanie Brinley of consultancy AutoPacific. "It wasn't the best in its class, and the Toyota halo didn't transfer from cars like the Camry."
While U.S. automakers had built a succession of poor cars in the 1980s and '90s, Chevy, Dodge and Ford pickup owners were generally satisfied.
In addition to underestimating the competition, Toyota's timing was lousy. After years on the upswing, the market for big pickups faltered just as the Tundra went on sale in 2007. Gasoline prices spiked to more than $3 as the Tundra hit the market from a national average of $2.11 a gallon.
Toyota invested more than $4.5 billion in the two Tundra assembly plants. It then spent an unspecified amount to retool its Princeton, Ind., plant to build other vehicles when Tundra sales sank to just 79,385 last year.
Carmakers don't disclose their costs to develop a vehicle, but it's safe to say engineering added at least $1.5 billion to the Tundra's tab.
Few of Toyota's customers were clamoring for a big pickup powered by a 5.7-liter, 381-horsepower V-8. Toyota built its reputation on small, reliable cars and high fuel economy.
"The decision to build the Tundra was driven more by Toyota's desire to be a full-line manufacturer than to please its existing customers," Brinley said.
The resources that produced benchmark vehicles such as the Prius and Camry were spread thin as the automaker pushed to become the world's largest automaker.
Toyota President Akio Toyoda admitted to Congress that the desire for growth led to Toyota's current woes, but the automaker's Japan-dominated culture created some of the Tundra's shortcomings, said Jim Hall, managing director of 2953 Analytics. "The cultural gap to develop a big pickup is huge for Japanese companies," he said.
Toyota spent more than a decade edging into the market with two smaller pickups before the 2007 Tundra, only to have its self-proclaimed most important vehicle ever for the U.S. run headlong into stronger competitors, a stumbling economy, a shift away from pickups and now the company's own quality problems.
With about $6 billion spent on the Tundra and more than 8 million vehicles now recalled for a variety of defects, it's worth asking whether Toyota's big pickup was a considered strategic move or a costly detour.
....
I have to agree that the current Tundra is a mistake.
However, the writer does fail to mention that the first year the current gen was on the market Toyota sold 196,000 units. 4k short of their 200k goal.
In comparison, the first gen Tundra was forcasted at 100k per year and was selling at 125k in the final year.
04-07-10, 08:35 AM
#3
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There were two big mistakes with the Tundra....neither of which the article really addresses. First, the 1Gen model was simply not large enough on the outside to appeal to F150/Silverado/Ram buyers. Though it had the required V8 (a 4.7L), it was actually less than full-size on the outside, and didn't have a high enough tow rating. Second, the 2Gen Tundra finally solved the long-standing size and engine problem (with the 5.7L I-Force V8), but its overall quality fell noticeably with thin sheet metal, poor-quality flimsy hardware, a cheaply-done interior, a tailgate prone to bending/warping, C-frame rails instead of fully-enclosed ones, and defects in the powertrain.
Unlike Toyota, Nissan, with the Titan, got the required size/engine correct from the start, but had serious quality-control problems in the Canton, MS plant where it was built.
Unlike Toyota, Nissan, with the Titan, got the required size/engine correct from the start, but had serious quality-control problems in the Canton, MS plant where it was built.
04-07-10, 08:49 AM
#4
The Tundra does not have the hardcore loyalism of the American truck-buyer. We're talking about ranchers and farm-folk that have driven Fords and Chevys for generations. GENERATIONS!!!
Just like how certain Japanese motorcycles are far superior in power, amenities, and reliability than a Harley Davidson, (currently) there is virtually no way that a Japanese product can sway the American loyalist masses.
Just like how certain Japanese motorcycles are far superior in power, amenities, and reliability than a Harley Davidson, (currently) there is virtually no way that a Japanese product can sway the American loyalist masses.
04-07-10, 08:51 AM
#6
Tundra is simply too expensive to compete with domestic trucks. Most of these are bought by companies, and they simply go for the cheapest, bare bone trucks. Also, they do not make a full size van based on the Tundra, such as Ford E-series, which counts towards Ford F-series sales, and these vans are often even more popular in commerce than pick-ups.
04-07-10, 09:19 AM
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give them 20 years, the camry, accord and all the other japanese cars did not sell in the millions 3 years after being here, it's a fine truck but much better deals can be had on Domestic pickups, Toyota dealers have to stop trying to sell a car at their higher prices, just because it is a toyota.
Im not from the middle of the country but I see enough camrys and accords and the likes sitting in driveways next to F150, so it's not like american truck buyers are not exploring their options
Im not from the middle of the country but I see enough camrys and accords and the likes sitting in driveways next to F150, so it's not like american truck buyers are not exploring their options
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04-07-10, 09:29 AM
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This shows just how tough it is to break into and gain a sustainable foothold in this market. Plus, from most accounts, the domestics do appear to have the better product in this area. Titan started off with promise and quickly became a tiny dot in Detroit's rear-view mirror. The same happened with the Tundra.
I think the Japanese have a long way to go before they can be a credible threat in the full-size truck segment. As was mentioned, brand loyalty in favor of the American trucks runs deep and Detroit is always going to be brutally aggressive in protecting this particular turf.
I think the Japanese have a long way to go before they can be a credible threat in the full-size truck segment. As was mentioned, brand loyalty in favor of the American trucks runs deep and Detroit is always going to be brutally aggressive in protecting this particular turf.
04-07-10, 09:38 AM
#9
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"Foreign" manufacturers just don't get the American Pickup Mystique. The Japanese automakers didn't do their homework on what makes it "American", and that's good quality, few frills, and an accessible price. By far the largest number of pickup sales are at the low end of the market spectrum, with maybe a few appearance "packages" like a chrome grill, wheels and mirrors to keep you from looking like all you can afford is the bottom-feeder.
The Titan and Tundra models start at the high mid-price range and move quickly upward with limited options. That's not how you build a market. Domestics open the bidding at roughly $20K for a full-size, three-passenger, half-ton truck, and there is plenty of dealing that can be done on the lot. These lower-end trucks have plenty of style, and the offerings from Ford and Chevy have stellar reputations for reliability. With only a few hundred dollars worth of appearance options (many of which are often available as buyer incentives), even the low end trucks look FAR better than their Japanese counterparts.
Meanwhile the Tundra starts some $3000 higher, and it LOOKS cheap. Even an urban cowboy wouldn't be caught dead in something like that, and it's going to take another $3000 in options to make it look like anything but an embarrassment to drive.
If you look at the selection of colors available, the import trucks are pretty stodgy, as though they are trying to disappear under that coat of muckelty-dun paint. Pickups should be bright red, bright blue, or occasionally black - that's America. White trucks scream "fleet vehicle" and although you see many in white livery, they are probably just waiting for the sign painter.
Now, the Toyota product, and I suspect this year's Nissan offering, are well made and perfectly acceptable products, but they just don't have the necessary attitude an American pickup has. They are probably practical but the commit the unpardonable sin of LOOKING like they are practical. Whatever happened to the YEEEEEEEHAAAAA!??
The Titan and Tundra models start at the high mid-price range and move quickly upward with limited options. That's not how you build a market. Domestics open the bidding at roughly $20K for a full-size, three-passenger, half-ton truck, and there is plenty of dealing that can be done on the lot. These lower-end trucks have plenty of style, and the offerings from Ford and Chevy have stellar reputations for reliability. With only a few hundred dollars worth of appearance options (many of which are often available as buyer incentives), even the low end trucks look FAR better than their Japanese counterparts.
Meanwhile the Tundra starts some $3000 higher, and it LOOKS cheap. Even an urban cowboy wouldn't be caught dead in something like that, and it's going to take another $3000 in options to make it look like anything but an embarrassment to drive.
If you look at the selection of colors available, the import trucks are pretty stodgy, as though they are trying to disappear under that coat of muckelty-dun paint. Pickups should be bright red, bright blue, or occasionally black - that's America. White trucks scream "fleet vehicle" and although you see many in white livery, they are probably just waiting for the sign painter.
Now, the Toyota product, and I suspect this year's Nissan offering, are well made and perfectly acceptable products, but they just don't have the necessary attitude an American pickup has. They are probably practical but the commit the unpardonable sin of LOOKING like they are practical. Whatever happened to the YEEEEEEEHAAAAA!??
Last edited by Lil4X; 04-07-10 at 09:42 AM.
04-07-10, 09:51 AM
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I think the tundra looks great inside and out, too bad it failed.
I agree about the loyalists for american cars in middle America. Living on the coast, imports overpower domestics. But even traveling to mid cali, you see more domestics already and a ton of ford pickups.
I agree about the loyalists for american cars in middle America. Living on the coast, imports overpower domestics. But even traveling to mid cali, you see more domestics already and a ton of ford pickups.
04-07-10, 10:06 AM
#11
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Unlike with the full-size Titan, you can't compare the Tundra and the Ridgeline. The Ridgeline is not a full-size truck, and Honda neither markets it as such or makes any claims to that effect. Toyota, though, until the 2Gen Tundra came along, DID try, for several years, to market less-than-full-size trucks as full-sizers. Americans weren't fooled.
04-07-10, 11:00 AM
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The Tundra is hardly a "failure". It sells reasonably but no one can expect it to overcome long term loyalty. Also remember that all truck sales are well below their peek levels.
Toyota has built a truck as good as the American offerings without question.
Toyota has built a truck as good as the American offerings without question.
04-07-10, 11:48 AM
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I wonder what the true demographic is for full-sized trucks. The stereotype is that they are hick-mobiles driven by farmhands in the heartland but I think just as many of these trucks are sold to general contractors and people involved in the construction trades. That's a nationwide market. Drive past any construction site and what do you see? Pickup truck after pickup truck and most of those are going to be Ford, Chevy or Dodge.
Judging from what a friend of mine said who happens to be a brick mason what counts is robust construction and durability as well as power. We once went to look at the Tundra and he simply looked over and under the truck, pushed and pulled on the bed and shook his head saying he wouldn't own it. It just wasn't solid enough in his opinion. Take that for what it's worth but I bet there are a lot of guys out there like him.
Judging from what a friend of mine said who happens to be a brick mason what counts is robust construction and durability as well as power. We once went to look at the Tundra and he simply looked over and under the truck, pushed and pulled on the bed and shook his head saying he wouldn't own it. It just wasn't solid enough in his opinion. Take that for what it's worth but I bet there are a lot of guys out there like him.
04-07-10, 11:56 AM
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. We once went to look at the Tundra and he simply looked over and under the truck, pushed and pulled on the bed and shook his head saying he wouldn't own it. It just wasn't solid enough in his opinion. Take that for what it's worth but I bet there are a lot of guys out there like him.
Where the old 1st gen Tundra did well with build quality and structure at its time, all of the full size pick up trucks right now on the market went full boxed frame (or almost fully boxed) where Toyota stayed antiquated c-channel. Then their is the interior issue and meager payload.
Also, everyone else except Nissan went to really nice interiors interiors where Toyota went to this work truck like inside.
Toyota totally missed what the market was doing.
and for those of you who do not know..Toyota outsourced the 2nd gen Tundra interior design to Lear Corporation.
BTW....have you ever heard of the "bed bounce"....it is one of the funniest things I have ever seen..
04-07-10, 12:25 PM
#15
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It's pretty obvious in the work truck market which trucks will be chosen by most with Ford at the top of the list. The urban cowboy market all of these trucks has certainly shrunk. No surprises.
From a automotive business standpoint, Toyota has not made full-size truck sales a huge part of the profits in their business model, unlike the big 3 in the recent past.
From a automotive business standpoint, Toyota has not made full-size truck sales a huge part of the profits in their business model, unlike the big 3 in the recent past.