ArmyofOne

Im not blasting Honda. Their reputation is undeniable. **** happens, even the smartest engineers cant catch everything.

I think its screwed up that if you are out of warranty you are screwed. They dont even require a tune-up for 100k miles, but the engine could possibly last less than HALF of that.

Honda did not list VIN numbers, because EVERY civic with a 1.8L that was built from June 05, to November 07 when they caught the defect in the casting is succeptable. EVERY block cast between those dates has the potential to simply bust open.

So far in the Honda database (My mother-in-law is a Financial Manager at my local dealer, and she looked into this with the District Service Manager, who called HOA's Database), there are over 4500 reported cases (In the US alone), and 3600 of them happened before 100,000 miles. 4 of them were over 200,000. This means may of the engines that are failing, are sticking the customer with a nearly $5,000 bill, and some of them are paying payments on $15,000+ paperweights.

4500 engines may not seem like alot compared to the hundreds of thousands of Civics made in that year and a half, but really it is quite a few. Honda knows about the problem, and they are tracking it, but issuing a recall of this magnitude makes ZERO sense. They should simply warranty the defect for a Reasonable amount of time. This way they are not replacing blocks that do not need it. It is quite possible that some will never have a problem. But it is equally within the realm of possibility, that EVERY R18 engine will EVENTUALLY fail from this defect, if something else doesnt cause engine failure first.

I can say this much, at least Japanese/korean automakers learn from their mistakes. As soon as this defect was caught, it was published to service departments and the casting was changed so that no more engines were made with the defective formula...unlike Chrysler, who STILL has transmission issues with certian cars and has for 20+ years.

Im not saying that you should get a free engine if you have 390,000 miles in 15 years and it happens. but at 4 years old with less than 150k? Come on. I understand, sometimes things get through QA/QC. It happens. But own up to it and stay loyal to your customers.

ArmyofOne

New update, Just found out...if the problem occurs and your engine overheats and warps/destroys your Head, HOA only covers the short block (if under warranty). The head is considered warped due to neglegence (Not watching the temp gauge I guess?), and as such is the fault of the consumer. My friend I was talking about in the above post just got her car back friday (I was unaware of this until I talked to my wife about 15 minutes ago). Honda did NOT replace the head on her engine, and she blew a headgasket this morning, She is stuck till monday. There goes another $1,500 dollars she doesnt have. She had to take out a signature loan to fix it the first time.

This just keeps getting better.

TRDFantasy

You say we have no idea GSteg of how many block are affected. Based on what OCD has posted, we DO HAVE a good idea of the potential blocks affected. Based on OCD's info, thousands of blocks have had the problem, and thousands upon thousands more have the potential for the problem to occur.

You're just grasping at straws here continuing to compare this situation to Toyota.

Toyota had an entire govt and mass media organized witch hunt to deal with, which was battering their reputation. Replacing the pedals was not a massive cost to them given the situation.

Are you seriously comparing the cost of replacing millions of pedals, to the cost of replacing thousands of engine blocks or entire engine assemblies? Do you even know how much a pedal costs compared to an R18 engine block?

Speaking of free passes, this MAJOR Honda issue will likely never get reported in the media, let alone online blogs as I mentioned earlier. How is that for a free pass .

So no, it's not "a very small number" affected. Statistically maybe it might be, but thousands of engine blocks that have already had this problem is simply inexcusable.

A fuel line cracking is still not as bad of an issue as an engine block cracking.

You seem to defend Honda every step of the way. Do you defend them too for their arrogance and stubborn attitude towards S2000 6-speed synchro problems? How about their stubborn attitude towards the current-gen Si 6-speed synchro problems?

More Honda arrogance, why am I not surprised.

IS350jet

I'm very leery about what I read on the internet, especially on forums like this one. Anybody can say anything they want and it's funny how people just run with it. Personally, I don't believe any of it until I see concrete proof, from the source. I will tell you that I called the Service Manager at my local Honda dealer and he's seen zero (0) cracked engine blocks on Civics. Of course, it could be different up in the snow belt.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

My son's Civic was bought in late Feb '08 so his Civic should have been made later than NOV 07.
I'll have to check the build date.
Thanks for posting that info,OC.

spwolf

if you are very lucky ;-)...

ArmyofOne

TRD: I have a good mind to go to the media with all of this. However, I am HOPING that getting word around on the net will do the trick. It worked with the Si's 6 speed Synchro problems. There is an indefinite warranty on that, so long as there is no evidence of abuse. Honda is usually VERY good about responding to customer complaints. Hopefully this isnt going to become an epidemic.
I am not sure how to take that comment, so I am going to assume (for now) you meant no insult to me. "Forums like this one"? This happens to be one of the best (if not THE best) auto forum on the net. "Concrete proof from the source"? A TSB issued by HOA is nothing? Why would I make that up? I understand being leery, and I dont blame you. However, I am not one to just go around blindly spreading BS. I have been a member here since 2004 (and you have since 2006), I have many friends/aquaintences here (you included), and I am as honest a person as you will meet. Many members here will attest to that. I would not post something like this if I did not think it warranted concern.

Again, If you arent accusing me of anything, then I apologize, but you certianly came off that way. Were I an immature person who likes to spread rumors and start fights, I would have taken it that way without consulting you first .
Anyone can say anything the want and people just run with it...I dont know that you even called. Not saying you didnt (I am sure you did), but I am making a point. Sometimes you just have to trust people. I am putting all of this out here because I know something about it. Been in the auto repair game a long time...and seen alot of things happen that probably shouldn't have. Your dealer may not have seen any, and maybe (HOPEFULLY) they never will...but the TSB is from HOA, and TSB's do not lie. The problem exists. Honda knows it. Right now its not so big (although 4500 cars is quite a few), but apparently it has the potential to be a big one.

Yes check the build date, but it is likely he is in the clear. My pleasure...like I said, I am just trying to get the word out. At least if it does happen to me, I wont be suprised. Doesnt make it any better, but it makes it easier for me to deal with. I think people in general wouldnt be so mad if they just knew it was a possibility. I am a rational person, and as I have said before, **** happens.

Having said all of that...I did NOT start this thread to turn it into a toyota vs honda knock-down-drag-out. Its simply to prompt discussion, maybe in the hopes that a solution will present itself. In the event that there is nothing to be done but wait, at least more people will be aware of the situation.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

He has a 1/08 build date.
He does put over 20K a year on the car so it's important that the car gets to at least 150K miles without a major issue like that.

ArmyofOne

He MAY not be out of the woods. He might have gotten a leftover block, who knows. Its close...real close. But 99.9% likely he is in the clear. Good news.

20k a year is nothing. look at this guy:



Friend of mine, inter-state medical supplies courier. Original Engine, original clutch, original tranny. 2006 Honda Civic LX. I would be willing to bet for every bad R18 out there, there are 2 of these.

I hope...

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Maybe but we feel better about the 1/08 build date.

balutsc300

iTrader: (1)

so whats wrong with the civic si transmission? i was thinking of getting a 2010 honda civic si but this is kinda making me iffy and im not talking about the block

ArmyofOne

nothing after 2008, they fixed it for the 09 MY. the 06-08's had a synchronizer issue, causing the trans to pop out or get stuck in 2nd gear.

TRDFantasy

The Si's have an indefinite warranty on them? Thanks for the info, good to see Honda covering that problem.

I still hear complaints from some Si owners that they have synchro problems, and when they go in to Honda, they refuse to fix the cars saying they've been abused.

What have you heard regarding that? Is it overblown or is Honda being arrogant here by jumping to conclusions regarding abuse?

On that note, what exactly constitutes abuse on Si trannies by Honda's definition? The Si is a sporty coupe, it's supposed to be driven hard. It should be designed for that.

ArmyofOne

basically if they see any modification of the vehicle, or abnormal wear on the clutch or other parts of the trans. They also check the ECU's to see the highest RPM the engines have reached.

the warranty isnt "indefinite" per se' I am sure it will end sometime. But for the time being no date/mileage has been set to discontinue the free repairs.

LexFather

They have the Same attitude and approache on the exploding trannies. Had a TSB.. People did it and went through multiple trannies with NO OFFICIAL RECALL even though it was a common problem.

Not surprised at how they are handling this.