bagwell

yep, I helped a friend change the oil on his 2007 Civic coupe over the weekend (very simple btw); dude is freaking out now over this....he's already in a huge financial hole and trying to dig his way out (really sad part is the dealer where he bought it now sells all the new Hondas with a lifetime powertrain warranty).

told him to call Honda Consumer Affairs

American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Consumer Affairs Department
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
310-783-2000
Toll free: 1-800-999-1009
Fax: 310-783-3273

ArmyofOne

tqlla3k,

They were factors, but not nearly to the point of being the deciding factors. We like the looks and the style. It is nice to look good and get 40mpg+ doing it. A friend of mine has a 2002 Dodge Viper Coupe. He loves that car. He also has a 2009 Honda Civic EX. He drives that daily. It isnt only the lower class that buy one is all I was saying. My wife and I are looking at purchasing a house in Tacoma, Washington in cash, outright, and that has little to do with what car(s) we own. Lesson here is just dont judge.

I was simply saying lumping people into stereotypes isnt a good thing to do. Its like saying all BMW drivers are *******s. It simply isnt true.

IS-SV

Before we get sidetracked with Civics being bought for luxury and looks and homes in Tacoma being purchased for cash that cost less than many Lexus vehicles, yes the stereotypes have been brought up on Car Chat before. The cracking of engine blocks on Civics is an interesting development.

bagwell

maybe this will help....

ArmyofOne

I LOL'd You are right, the subject at hand.

<VENOM>

Is this cracking of the engines due to foot to the floor driving on a cold engine, that type of abuse will eventually due it, does anyone know where the cracks develop, the last gen Sentra and 4cylinder altima had a brand new engine that had more issues mainly due to design flaws, it looked cool on paper but in the real world it was hit or miss, more hits then misses thankfully.

Generally 4cylinders are hard engines to design but I thought Honda had it down, this is just one of those things that makes me wonder, your bread and butter and you somehow messed it up, and I agree with the 10year 250k coverage whoever posted that.

To OCDetailer, 1st Toyota with your Matrix and now riding on pins and needles with your Civic, so does this mean Honda is out also

mmarshall

Overdoing the RPM/manifold pressure on a cold engine will more likely lead to premature engine wear than an out-and-out block crack. That's because of excessive friction and the cold oil not (yet) performing up to snuff. Though the normal running temperature is 190-200 degrees Farenheit (when the thermostat opens), most gasoline engines are considered warmed up when the coolant is around 140 degrees....usually the point when the cold-temp light goes out or when the temp gauge needle is at the lower end of the normal range. Below this point, RPMs should be kept below 3000 and the gas pedal not floored. Additional care should be taken to keep the RPMs below 3000 because some automatics delay upshifting to the higher gears before the engine is warm, causing additional RPM's. That is done as a quick warm-up to get the catalytic converter hot ASAP.

There are several ways a block can crack, but the most common (and classic) way is to simply not wait long enough after overheating before cold water is poured in......and taking the radiator cap off a very hot engine, of course (unless you know what you are doing), can be dangerous. Another way is repeated harmonic stress/vibration and metal fatigue from misfiring or inoperative cylinders, which is more of a problem on 4-cylinders because they generally don't run as smoothly to start with, unless they are very well-designed or have balance-shafts. Usually, though, with a misfiring cylinder in modern cars, the catalytic converter burns up (or blows up) before the engine self-destructs. That's because when a spark plug doesn't fire as it should, the raw air-fuel mixture gets injected (or sucked) into the cylinder and then goes out the exhaust valve, where it can get lit off in the exhaust pipe at 800-900 degrees, or, more likely, in the catalyst at up to 1800 degrees. If the CHECK ENGINE system is working properly, a misfire will also trigger the light.

ArmyofOne

The cracking of the block can occur any time, any RPM, any mileage, any treatment.

For my wife and I's friend, who bought her civic on our reccomendation, she was taking off from a stop light (she BABIES her car), and saw steam coming from the engine, then, the engine simply shut off and would not restart. No overheat light, no rising temp gauge. She had it towed to her dealer, and they found the cracks.

She got the car back from her dealer with the new engine, and got it home, all was well.

she drove it to the store for some milk 3 hrs later, and the headgasket blew because honda didnt machine the head/put a new one on when the repair was done. When she asked them about it, they said "you didnt pay for the head, only the block, pistons, and crankshaft.

Nice.

GiantsFan

iTrader: (9)

Wow... talk about crappy service

IS350jet

Sounds more like a failure on the technicians part.

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

If a service person had the nerve to say that to me in person, I would have pulled a Latrell Sprewell on him.

Good luck

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Where are the thousands you speak of? The only statistics I've seen so far are those from a forum, and you know that is a very poor representation of any the problem because it's usually cluttered up with comments.

How many pedals have they replaced compared to the amount of engine Honda has found defected? Let's not forget Toyota at one point replaced 3.0L V6 engines due to sludge problems, and we know it was blown way out of proportion relative to the amount of blocks that were made.

No need to feel sorry for Toyota. Look at the issue on hand and lets not play the "its 3 against 1" game. Just because of their position, it's makes it okay? They still replaced a crap load of pedals and that cost money, with or without the government's scrutiny. But this isn't about Toyota, I was merely making a point about how both companies are covering a wide range of vehicles (not even VIN-specific!!) for the sake of doing so.


It's not going to get attention because it's not a safety concern. No one got killed in it, so the media like they are, aren't going to make a big deal out of it. Will you not be satisfied until Honda gets national news or something? It's not a recall. And when I'm talking about free passes, I'm not talking about one from the government/media/blogs. I'm talking about free passes from you.


Where is the information on the thousands that have occurred? All I asked for was a hard copy of the information, not guesses. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but I'm not going to spend hours looking up data for a car that does not affect me directly.

Free pass right here. Had Honda had a fuel problem, you'd probably question Honda's ability to make something simple as a fuel line, that could abrupt and maybe catch on fire?

You defend Toyota every step of the way so we're one for one?

I don't defend Honda. I'm not loyal to any brand. I have criticized Honda HEAVILY in the past, but other people here are doing that so well, I can relax now Our family have owned more Toyota than Honda, and I'm driving a Toyota product for my own reasons.

As for the S2000 and Si transmission, note that I've never once made a comment to defend them. I choose to remain silent on the issue because everything negative about them has already been said and I agreed with most of the assessment so no need to rehash the same thing.


I'm still waiting on my data though... And don't think I'm going to get butt-hurt if it turns out thousands of engine blocks are bad. It doesn't do a thing for me.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Complain to the Honda Consumer Affair and speak LOUDLY on the issue.

Honda is not in the wrong for only covering the short block if that's the problem. The head should not be replace because it's not 'defective'. The problem lies within the technician. Aluminum heads will warp if they are overheated enough. Any good tech knows the head should be inspected before putting back onto the engine block. On my last few headgasket installs, I had to mill the head and block clean to make an even surface otherwise the headgasket will not do its job properly. Thus her headgasket blew.

EDIT: Headgasket blowing a few days later after a new block has been installed is a high indication of technician error.

LexFather

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

This is the point I've been trying to make. A TSB doesn't mean all of them will be affected. No one knows the true extent of what triggered the event. Until we see some sort of trend and hard facts, we don't know what caused it and how many of them have occurred.