Cracking Engine Blocks on 2006, 2007 and a select few 2008 Honda Civic's (non Si)
04-04-10, 06:21 PM
#32
Pole Position
TRD:
I am not sure how to take that comment, so I am going to assume (for now) you meant no insult to me. "Forums like this one"? This happens to be one of the best (if not THE best) auto forum on the net. "Concrete proof from the source"? A TSB issued by HOA is nothing? Why would I make that up? I understand being leery, and I dont blame you. However, I am not one to just go around blindly spreading BS. I have been a member here since 2004 (and you have since 2006), I have many friends/aquaintences here (you included), and I am as honest a person as you will meet. Many members here will attest to that. I would not post something like this if I did not think it warranted concern.
Again, If you arent accusing me of anything, then I apologize, but you certianly came off that way. Were I an immature person who likes to spread rumors and start fights, I would have taken it that way without consulting you first
.
Anyone can say anything the want and people just run with it...I dont know that you even called. Not saying you didnt (I am sure you did), but I am making a point. Sometimes you just have to trust people. I am putting all of this out here because I know something about it. Been in the auto repair game a long time...and seen alot of things happen that probably shouldn't have. Your dealer may not have seen any, and maybe (HOPEFULLY) they never will...but the TSB is from HOA, and TSB's do not lie. The problem exists. Honda knows it. Right now its not so big (although 4500 cars is quite a few), but apparently it has the potential to be a big one.
I am not sure how to take that comment, so I am going to assume (for now) you meant no insult to me. "Forums like this one"? This happens to be one of the best (if not THE best) auto forum on the net. "Concrete proof from the source"? A TSB issued by HOA is nothing? Why would I make that up? I understand being leery, and I dont blame you. However, I am not one to just go around blindly spreading BS. I have been a member here since 2004 (and you have since 2006), I have many friends/aquaintences here (you included), and I am as honest a person as you will meet. Many members here will attest to that. I would not post something like this if I did not think it warranted concern.
Again, If you arent accusing me of anything, then I apologize, but you certianly came off that way. Were I an immature person who likes to spread rumors and start fights, I would have taken it that way without consulting you first
.Anyone can say anything the want and people just run with it...I dont know that you even called. Not saying you didnt (I am sure you did), but I am making a point. Sometimes you just have to trust people. I am putting all of this out here because I know something about it. Been in the auto repair game a long time...and seen alot of things happen that probably shouldn't have. Your dealer may not have seen any, and maybe (HOPEFULLY) they never will...but the TSB is from HOA, and TSB's do not lie. The problem exists. Honda knows it. Right now its not so big (although 4500 cars is quite a few), but apparently it has the potential to be a big one.
A TSB is from a manufacturer is indeed concrete proof of a legitimate issue. The TSB doesn't, however, say that 100's of thousands of engine blocks will be destroyed by overheating or cracking which was the tone set by this thread. The TSB simply states the issue at hand, what to look for, and what the repair procedure is. It will never specify the extent of damages the manufacturer has seen.
My local dealer here in Florida, where I live, hasn't seen any cracked blocks in Civics. As I said, maybe it's happening only on cars that overheat while it's 25 degrees outside. Or maybe they're cracking only after severe overheating. I don't know the specifics. I do believe, however, that it is not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. It's probably much ado about nothing. Personally, if I had a Civic that fell in that VIN range, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Again, my apologies if I ruffled any feathers.
04-04-10, 07:09 PM
#33
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OC, my apologies if I offended you. No, it was not directed at you or this forum, in particular. I'm simply saying that the internet is not the greatest place for the truth and that includes this and other forums. I've worked for Toyota nd Lexus for the last 26 years and I can't tell you the loads upon loads of misinformation out there. Again, I'm not blaming you or CL.
A TSB is from a manufacturer is indeed concrete proof of a legitimate issue. The TSB doesn't, however, say that 100's of thousands of engine blocks will be destroyed by overheating or cracking which was the tone set by this thread. The TSB simply states the issue at hand, what to look for, and what the repair procedure is. It will never specify the extent of damages the manufacturer has seen.
My local dealer here in Florida, where I live, hasn't seen any cracked blocks in Civics. As I said, maybe it's happening only on cars that overheat while it's 25 degrees outside. Or maybe they're cracking only after severe overheating. I don't know the specifics. I do believe, however, that it is not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. It's probably much ado about nothing. Personally, if I had a Civic that fell in that VIN range, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Again, my apologies if I ruffled any feathers.
A TSB is from a manufacturer is indeed concrete proof of a legitimate issue. The TSB doesn't, however, say that 100's of thousands of engine blocks will be destroyed by overheating or cracking which was the tone set by this thread. The TSB simply states the issue at hand, what to look for, and what the repair procedure is. It will never specify the extent of damages the manufacturer has seen.
My local dealer here in Florida, where I live, hasn't seen any cracked blocks in Civics. As I said, maybe it's happening only on cars that overheat while it's 25 degrees outside. Or maybe they're cracking only after severe overheating. I don't know the specifics. I do believe, however, that it is not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. It's probably much ado about nothing. Personally, if I had a Civic that fell in that VIN range, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Again, my apologies if I ruffled any feathers.
Point is, based on what OCD is saying, thousands upon thousands of blocks out there in Civics are defective. They may not all crack, but that still doesn't change the fact those blocks have a defect.
04-04-10, 07:54 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
The Civic is a top 10 selling car so even at a 2 or 3% fail rate we r talking about thousands of cars.
I hope they find and fix the issue.
I hope they find and fix the issue.
04-05-10, 01:08 AM
#35
Dysfunctional Veteran
Thread Starter
OC, my apologies if I offended you. No, it was not directed at you or this forum, in particular. I'm simply saying that the internet is not the greatest place for the truth and that includes this and other forums. I've worked for Toyota nd Lexus for the last 26 years and I can't tell you the loads upon loads of misinformation out there. Again, I'm not blaming you or CL.
A TSB is from a manufacturer is indeed concrete proof of a legitimate issue. The TSB doesn't, however, say that 100's of thousands of engine blocks will be destroyed by overheating or cracking which was the tone set by this thread. The TSB simply states the issue at hand, what to look for, and what the repair procedure is. It will never specify the extent of damages the manufacturer has seen.
My local dealer here in Florida, where I live, hasn't seen any cracked blocks in Civics. As I said, maybe it's happening only on cars that overheat while it's 25 degrees outside. Or maybe they're cracking only after severe overheating. I don't know the specifics. I do believe, however, that it is not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. It's probably much ado about nothing. Personally, if I had a Civic that fell in that VIN range, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Again, my apologies if I ruffled any feathers.
A TSB is from a manufacturer is indeed concrete proof of a legitimate issue. The TSB doesn't, however, say that 100's of thousands of engine blocks will be destroyed by overheating or cracking which was the tone set by this thread. The TSB simply states the issue at hand, what to look for, and what the repair procedure is. It will never specify the extent of damages the manufacturer has seen.
My local dealer here in Florida, where I live, hasn't seen any cracked blocks in Civics. As I said, maybe it's happening only on cars that overheat while it's 25 degrees outside. Or maybe they're cracking only after severe overheating. I don't know the specifics. I do believe, however, that it is not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. It's probably much ado about nothing. Personally, if I had a Civic that fell in that VIN range, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Again, my apologies if I ruffled any feathers.
. Indeed it may not be as bad as this thread or others make it out to be...but then it could. Only time will tell.It doesn't matter if the TSB lists blocks that haven't cracked yet. If the TSB has listed those specific blocks, then that means those blocks definitely have a defect, which may or may not result in a cracked block.
Point is, based on what OCD is saying, thousands upon thousands of blocks out there in Civics are defective. They may not all crack, but that still doesn't change the fact those blocks have a defect.
Point is, based on what OCD is saying, thousands upon thousands of blocks out there in Civics are defective. They may not all crack, but that still doesn't change the fact those blocks have a defect.
You and me both bud. LOL. I think there were roughly 750,000? civics made in that time span...so...it could be ALOT of cars.
04-05-10, 04:15 AM
#36
Pole Position
That may be where we differ on the interpretation of the TSB. "Definitely have a defect" is not right. The TSB spells out a VIN range. It simply states that vehicles in that VIN range "may have a defect". It's not a fact that they all do. Again, it's misinformation.
04-05-10, 05:20 AM
#37
Dysfunctional Veteran
Thread Starter
This particular TSB States:
2006-07 Civic (NON SI)-ALL.
It does not give a VIN range like most others do.
04-05-10, 07:38 AM
#38
Pole Position
Right! I see where you are coming from. Again, it's an interpretation thing. All the vehicles in that VIN range *may* be affected, not *are* affected. I doubt, sincerely, that *all* engine blocks *will* crack eventually as someone posted earlier. That's just more misinformation. Anyway, we both interpret the TSB differently, or, perhaps, we agree to disagree.
04-05-10, 09:16 AM
#40
New update, Just found out...if the problem occurs and your engine overheats and warps/destroys your Head, HOA only covers the short block (if under warranty). The head is considered warped due to neglegence (Not watching the temp gauge I guess?), and as such is the fault of the consumer. My friend I was talking about in the above post just got her car back friday (I was unaware of this until I talked to my wife about 15 minutes ago). Honda did NOT replace the head on her engine, and she blew a headgasket this morning, She is stuck till monday. There goes another $1,500 dollars she doesnt have. She had to take out a signature loan to fix it the first time.
This just keeps getting better.
This just keeps getting better.
My 3000GT overheated When I hit 130K miles to the main fan failure. The temperature gauge skyrocketed quick. I am surprised there isnt a light or a beeping for this. Luckily my GT survived. I am at 228K miles now.
That really reeks that Honda isnt covering people out of warranty, when its clearly a design flaw. People who buy civics are already short on cash and bought in because of Honda reliabilty.
My friend with an 06 Civic EX had to replace her bent control arms? WTH the car was never wrecked. It would really suck if her motor died.
04-05-10, 09:32 AM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
This is one of the areas (among several) where I tend to be conservative in auto design. I understand the benefits of a lighter engine up front (gas mileage, handling, braking, etc....), but I've always been a firm believer in the durability of cast-iron block/heads. Unfortunately, few engines are still designed like that today.
Of course, that does not mean that aluminum engines are necessarily unreliable. There have been great advances over the years in aluminum-alloys, and many of them go 200K or more miles today. But there is little question of the strength of an iron block, especially when the coolant overheats, though, under some conditions, rust/corrosion can be a problem.
Of course, that does not mean that aluminum engines are necessarily unreliable. There have been great advances over the years in aluminum-alloys, and many of them go 200K or more miles today. But there is little question of the strength of an iron block, especially when the coolant overheats, though, under some conditions, rust/corrosion can be a problem.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-05-10 at 09:36 AM.
04-05-10, 09:46 AM
#42
This is one of the areas (among several) where I tend to be conservative in auto design. I understand the benefits of a lighter engine up front (gas mileage, handling, braking, etc....), but I've always been a firm believer in the durability of cast-iron block/heads. Unfortunately, few engines are still designed like that today.
Of course, that does not mean that aluminum engines are necessarily unreliable. There have been great advances over the years in aluminum-alloys, and many of them go 200K or more miles today. But there is little question of the strength of an iron block, especially when the coolant overheats, though, under some conditions, rust/corrosion can be a problem.
Of course, that does not mean that aluminum engines are necessarily unreliable. There have been great advances over the years in aluminum-alloys, and many of them go 200K or more miles today. But there is little question of the strength of an iron block, especially when the coolant overheats, though, under some conditions, rust/corrosion can be a problem.
As far as strength goes, iron block is more likely to crack than aluminum. And with overheating, aluminum does not expand as much as iron either so there's less chance of headgasket failure. And you dont have to worry about rust and corrosion.
04-05-10, 09:54 AM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Not according to Honda specs. Civic engines haven't been cast-iron for some time.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
Unless you do something REALLY stupid with an iron block (like dump in a lot of cold water when it is overheated, without a cool-down period), in general, iron is more durable than aluminum (though, of course, much heavier). The rust/corrosion arguement is ganerally true....but that also depends on the quality of the anti-freeze and its anti-corrosion inhibitors.
The worst of both worlds, of course, is what GM tried many years ago with the Chevrolet Vega and its 4-cylinder derivitives...poor-quality alumunim blocks with cast-iron cylinder liner/sleeves. That was a disaster waiting to happen with the slightest amount of overheating, as the two metals expanded at different rates and warped the block. That is one of the reasons WHY aluminum-block engines are so much better today...the experience GM had with those designs.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
As far as strength goes, iron block is more likely to crack than aluminum. And with overheating, aluminum does not expand as much as iron either so there's less chance of headgasket failure. And you dont have to worry about rust and corrosion.
The worst of both worlds, of course, is what GM tried many years ago with the Chevrolet Vega and its 4-cylinder derivitives...poor-quality alumunim blocks with cast-iron cylinder liner/sleeves. That was a disaster waiting to happen with the slightest amount of overheating, as the two metals expanded at different rates and warped the block. That is one of the reasons WHY aluminum-block engines are so much better today...the experience GM had with those designs.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-05-10 at 10:00 AM.
04-05-10, 10:01 AM
#44
Dysfunctional Veteran
Thread Starter
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the civic engine is cast iron.
As far as strength goes, iron block is more likely to crack than aluminum. And with overheating, aluminum does not expand as much as iron either so there's less chance of headgasket failure. And you dont have to worry about rust and corrosion.
As far as strength goes, iron block is more likely to crack than aluminum. And with overheating, aluminum does not expand as much as iron either so there's less chance of headgasket failure. And you dont have to worry about rust and corrosion.
Not according to Honda specs. Civic engines haven't been cast-iron for some time.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
Unless you do something REALLY stupid with an iron block (like dump in a lot of cold water when it is overheated), in general, iron is more durable than aluminum (though, of course, much heavier). The rust/corrosion arguement is ganerally true....but that also depends on the quality of the anti-freeze and its anti-corrosion inhibitors.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
Unless you do something REALLY stupid with an iron block (like dump in a lot of cold water when it is overheated), in general, iron is more durable than aluminum (though, of course, much heavier). The rust/corrosion arguement is ganerally true....but that also depends on the quality of the anti-freeze and its anti-corrosion inhibitors.
.
04-05-10, 10:04 AM
#45
Perhaps I should have said "People are short on cash to spend on their car" Sure there are exceptions. But most people buy civics, because they are supposed to be cheap to keep running.
Last edited by tqlla3k; 04-05-10 at 10:16 AM.