joe80

side is consistent with Azera and Elantra.

Rear is more Maxima than LaCrosse.

joe80

It doesn't take 20 years for car company to be great. it's 2010, folks. you get talents from everywhere. hyundai designed many cars from Cali. Hyundai is now caught up with Japanese competition. now it's all about product vs. product. Just like how Samsung is no longer inferior to Sony.

those days are gone.


just 15 years ago, Japan dominated electronics. in 2010? Japanese domination has finally expired. now there are great products all over the world. and proof of this is look at HTC or Acer from Taiwan. just 5 years ago they were no namers. right now they are serious contenders. frankly HTC phones are much more attractive than any Sony IMO.

joe80

i have no idea how you see Celica in Gen Coupe.

and what's wrong with following the most successful car brand in the world?(minus recalls)

should Hyundai follow Chrysler? should they mimic Honda? Nissan? if you are goal is to become the best selling car brand in the world, you have to go after the best. Frankly, I'm glad that Hyundai wants to be like toyota (there is no proof of this, but i can see why you think hyundai is imitating toyota). it only means that they are ambitious and they want to be #1. Toyota before recall was taught in school. I've read the entire book, 'Toyota Way'. I'm sure Hyundai folks did too.

I'm no economist, but I can easily see Hyundai's growth will explode in this decade. not just a gradual growth. I think at one point it will explode.

and you don't have to worry about Hyundai because they know what they are doing. they grew every year. they are one of the most profitable car maker in the world. they sold over 800,000 cars in China(#1 market in the world) and became #2 best seller there. Selling incredibly well in India which will become 2nd biggest market. They are #2 best seller in Canada passing Honda. Globally they are firm at #4.

when you have a genuine work ethic, ambition, $, and government to back you up, it's hard to fail. it's just matter of time IMO.

LexFather

I am seriously asking do you read? Don't just type a hasty response. Read what people are saying. Please do not spin my words, I did not nor will ever say Hyundai straight copied Toyota. What I said IS A FACT, they took Toyota's production method. They hired Toyota employees. I am not here saying Hyundai's look like Toyotas.

Did you read the specifications of the FT-86? It is as small as a S2000, nowhere close in size to the Genesis. No V-6 will be offered. You conveniently IGNORE the FACT it is a spritual successor to the AE86.

Two RWD coupes does not mean one followed the other.

joe80

- Genesis is much better than ES in every possible way. price is about the same. to me Equus has failed on exterior design and interior dash which i think looks outdated already. would've been great if it came out in 2006. build quality is definitely above E class IMO. but of course it's not up there with LS in terms of build quality. Equus fit/finish isn't up there with LS, but the ride is there. from all the test drive i've read, it's basically heavier, much more quiet Genesis with creature comforts.

- you can buy amanti for 25k. amanti doesn't compete with Lexus.

- and Equus in USA will cost about 20-25 grand less than comparably equipped LS460. Equus might be bigger than LS, but it will be cheaper than v8 offerings of 5/E/M. and i think hyundai could easily improve on quality if they throw another 20-25 grand to improve the quality, but i don't think that's necessary.

pagemaster

The Veracruz came out on top in a comparo against the RX in MT a few years ago

flipside909

The Genesis is targeted at the 5 Series, E Class and GS. The ES is not a Genesis competitor.

So you haven't driven the Equus in person yet, but you say the ride is better than the LS and build quality is better than the E but not the LS?

You can buy any Hyundai for that matter, but none of their models really compete with Lexus. Maybe Acura or Volvo...but they're not quite there yet.

The Equus is targeted at the large luxury car market, S-Class, 7 Series and LS.

joe80

Veracruz came on top because it was cheaper and had more value. but overall RX is the better SUV. but compare to veracuz against any other non-luxury competitors and it's right up there with any SUVs.

Veracruz is a sales failure because it just doesn't look great and price was bit too high for hyundai. if you are going to charge over 35k for SUV, it better be humongous like american SUVs or it better be the best looking SUV out there. i know it has 3rd row, but it's not that big and the exterior design doesn't have any character.

I think Hyundai can do better than that. I think hyundai failed on veracruz. same thing goes to azera. but i'm confident they will do much better job next time. Make it look like a big big Tucson brother. it will be sell twice more.

LexFather

Very fair and good post.

joe80

I know many people who drove Equus. In korea, new equus is everywhere. I follow every hyundai in details and korean-spec Equus is a great ride. it's probably the quietest car in the world right now. it's more on LS side. it's wider than S. even the korean spec is not floaty. US spec will have better suspension IMO. but in this segment, spec really isn't that big of a deal. it's the image. S is the king. LS has that perfect Japanese flagship image. 7 has sporty image, audi is an underdog 'aren't you sick of S' image. Equus has no image. People will view it as a korean RWD lincoln town car.

it doesn't matter what Equus or Genesis targets. they both have hyundai badge. it competes against its price bracket. no matter what genesis wants to be, it's 33k-42k car.

Equus can target S class all they want, but at the end of the day its 55k car. it will compete with 50-60k cars. if hyundai makes 80-85k Equus, i'm sure it will have better details and etc. but it's not necessary. hyundai will bring equus to not to sell, but to upgrade their image. it's their halo car. i'll be surprised if hyundai sells 2000 equus a year.

pagemaster

Still came out on top in regards to mainstream auto press.

I will have to read the article again, it was few years back if I recall

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

The Equus may be a great car but like the Genesis,it won't sell well here.
People aren't ready to spend big bucks on a Hyundai.Maybe in the near future but not now.

flipside909

Here's Motor Trend's comparison from 2007.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...350/index.html

And to be fair, Hyundai Santa Fe came out 4 years after the Gen 2 RX (04-09) came out. Gen 2 RX came out in 2003 as a 2004 model. Hyundai had 4 years to develop what they had at the time...it's going to be a given manufacturers have a benchmark...and the RX is that.

joe80

yes. why would anybody spend 50k+ on non-luxury car brand?


if hyundai truly wants to compete with Lexus of german luxury, they have to launch the new brand. they aren't doing it because it costs too much and they want to fix hyundai's image first.

flipside909

It should be no surprise the Equus is everywhere in it's homeland. But it's going to be a while before the Equus builds it's equity in the US, and of course the world.

Very true but that will only get you so far. There are buyers that like luxury and don't care for the luxury branding and there are those buyers that want luxury and the brand to go with it. Most people (Americans) hate to say it are greedy and materialistic. Brand names are important to them, and when it comes to a luxury marque, they will select a luxury brand.

Remember the Mazda Millenia and Mazda 929? Those were cars that were targeted at the luxury marques...and they were cars that were supposed to be a seperate luxury brand called "Amati" but later scrapped. They did okay, but they never got to the status although being value priced.

It's good to have options, and of course Lexus and Toyota were in that position over 20 years ago. It is just a matter of time before Hyundai builds their reputation. They're doing pretty well.