LexFather

Well today the fiance and myself spent a lot of time together checking out some nice places around Atlanta for "that day". As I've explained b4 my G/F's lease on her Altima is up soon so we are exploring our options. (I still need to start that thread on it). We decided to take some time after we finished with our priorities and check out the new Maxima.

This review will not only take you into the vehicles but how we were treated by the 2 dealerships. I will not name them as I don't intend on bashing either but we both left very unimpressed. I also go in acting like a normal customer that doesn't know more about the car than they do. Finally I don't influence my lady at all, I don't make many comments and I just observe her. She knows what brand is best anyway. I don't want her to be prejudiced against the car if I am not a fan of it or certain things.

Bias
Now as you are aware I am VERY VERY fond of this vehicle. It doesn't help that my lady is too. So this car has a lot going for it even before we drive it.

Intro
This is a midsize Nissan dealer and the lot was empty, I think we were the only customers there. The lot was arranged like most with all the new cars in front and the used cars to the side. In front was a beautiful blue 370Z coupe.

We park and a friendly salesman comes after about a minute. Now I am not one to judge people by appearances, especially since many dealerships have judged me based on how I dressed in the past (jeans, jordans, t-shirts). However I am older and understand the business and with us having to meet multiple company representatives today I looked the part (jeans, shoes, turtleneck, sportcoat). Well the salesman was nice but his appearance was unacceptable. Unshaved, slacks, a team jacket or atheletic jacket. I was actually shocked he was a salesman, I thought he was with the help!

He asks what we are looking at. Maxima. He then asks what features we are looking for. We both say NAV.

Well he didn't know inventory off the top of his head so he walked one by one to each car to look at the sticker for NAV. Now that would be fine if there are 3-4 cars but there are 15-20 cars there so it took a minute.

None have Nav. All are SV, no SE. To his credit he tells us he has access to other inventory.

Exterior
As he walks inside we BOTH admire this vehicle. It looks fantastic, very muscular, bold and luxurious. I think it looks more luxurious than anything Nissan/Infiniti has ever produced. Fantastic proportions, the paint looked high quality, fit and finish looked great. The rear hunches are superb. The odd "boomerang" headlights don't bug us. We both prefer it with the rear spoiler. This car had 245/45/18s all around for a big footprint. They had a used G37 sedan on the lot and the Maxima looks so much better.

Interior
She liked the black with beige leather so we drove that. The inside is also well put together and only feels a step behind a Lexus. Its not obvious to me and I assure you to those that don't know much about cars, its a great place. There is a lot of room and the interior layout reminds me of a G37. The Maxima though gets the orange gauges like old Infiniti's (new ones took the Lexus look gauges). There is no NAV so there is an orange display in the middle. My lady liked it a lot. What I didn't like was the execution of the fake carbon fiber print. Look either do it (like the IS-F) or don't do it. It came off as cheap and I'm sure over time it will look poor. It also fit poorly. This is when I noticed there was an opportunity for some extra compartments where this trim was. This is also when I noticed the glovebox, cupholder, things OPEN but they simply are not very fluid. This is a little thing Lexus studies and actually ensures everything opens the same speed. Small but it was obvious to me.

The front seats felt great and had good side bolstering. The rear seat had good room and I felt fine. My head did bump the top if I leaned forward (like most cars). Overall the interior also is a hit to me. Shame there is no NAV or the wood package.

The ride/drive

The salesman didn't ask for any license so we were off. First my lady drove and she liked it a lot. There is the usual VQ growl under some throttle. (Oh the gauges do the IS sweep when you start it). This car has the Nissan CVT that I am a fan of. Since we BOTH have experience with CVTs it doesn't feel weird to us. I felt the VQ was very nicely matched from the passenger seat. Isolation from the road was good, the ride felt pretty quiet and this felt like the asking price. This car is a 3.5 V-6 with 290 peak hp.

It was my turn and of course I drove harder including a sweep in a big cul de sac. This is no 4DSC but it handles admirably (this is a SV, not a SE which has a sport tuned suspension and I think even a rear STB) and for my lady, it is fine and for most people it is fine. Only if you push it at 9 or 10/10ths would you notice it is not what the advertising is telling you. The VQ is classic, pulls hard, tons of torque, doesn't feel peaky or ever underpowered even as the Maxima has gained 400-500lbs since the 1995 model (imagine the 96 Maxima was around 3100 lbs!). To me it was slightly rough at idle but to ME that is expected with this engine/company. Refinement is not job #1.

The brakes feel good, not grabby and good pedal travel. The steering felt pretty tight. The hood has a nice curved touch so you have a good feeling of where the front fenders are (my GS is very very flat in comparison).Overall I liked it a lot.

Extra tidbits

The salesman started doing a better job as we talked and when we parked showed us the engine bay. He then showed us the trunk and it is pretty large. What is also impressive is it is a 60/40 split (HELLO LEXUS). There are two pulls in the trunk, you pull it and the backseat drops.

This is also the part where the salesman explained the front seat has some front support and the seat manually extends. Very nice (wish I knew this WHEN I was driving).

The price was 34k+ but what was a rip off was the $1,500 "paint protection" package and some other charge to protect from goats or something to make it over 36k total.

Conclusion

Overall we both came in liking it and walked away liking it. We will have to drive the SE model and a LOADED SV model with the NAV/wood/panamaric roof etc. Nissan has done a fantastic job here.

The salesman seemed confused as to how to approach us afterwards. His sales performance was disappointing. We got no brochure which I felt we needed since he didn't tell us much anything about the car.

This is where there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE disconnect. This car is 36k. That is Lexus IS/ES/HS money. It is BMW money. Benz money. The sales experience and dealership appearance etc do not begin to warrant the price of this car. It might be fine if you move up from a Sentra but to me, it is pretty bad. Mind you this car is really selling well for Nissan. I can image with better salesmen and dealerships, they could sell EVEN MORE. To Nissan's credit, I still liked the Maxima enough to overlook this (and find a better dealership). I have no problem with paying under 40k for this car as to me, it does offer a lot.

Other Nissans

We checked out the updated Altimas. The hood is very sculpted and it looks good to me. We then saw some coupes, including a loaded 3.5 "SR" I didn't know they made. I am at a loss why they would make it look so similar to a G35/37. Thing is it looks much less fluid.

We then checked out a 370Z convert for 41k with cloth, black on black. I am really impressed again with the interior. I can appreciate the steering wheel/gauge cluster moving together like in an Infiniti as I am a tall driver and its a small car. Overall it feels much more substantial and better built than the 350Z, which was IMO a complete POS inside.

I asked "do u have a GT-R" and they did. So we walk inside and I immediately start hunching this beautiful silver/blacked out GT-R. Beautiful in a menacing way. My lady loves it as well (and knows my feelings of it). If I could, I would. I love that car. I mean it looked GLORIOUS!!!

Compared to the last Maxima

I cannot believe the difference between this one and the last one. The last one was a big bloated POS then and it is now. They should go back and rename the last one the Nissan "Our bad". This new Maxima is 5 steps better than the last one. Very impressive jump. This Max interior is much better (the last one was made of plywood), the ride is much better with more isolation and doesn't feel like its falling apart. It really is a leap here.

(attached pic of the interior with the front seat bolster extended)

LexFather

Next up was not on the menu. There was an Acura dealer close so I ask my lady "do you want to check an Acura out" and she responded "I'd rather an Infiniti before an Acura". Smart girl I pull in b/c I am VERY VERY curious on her thoughts. As I stated earlier I haven't told her anything about the vehicles and I let her come to her own conclusions before putting in my 2 cents.

Bias
As yall know I think the car is one of the ugliest ever made in history and there is not much value involved anymore. This is an unimpressive new car to me. That said I am eager to see why its better than the Maxima we just saw.

Intro
We park and get out and there are a row of what looks like wrecked or recycled refrigerators outside. Thats when we notice they are actually TLs On a serious note, my lady is looking and I am not saying anything and she says "Mike these things are very ugly" to which I reply "they are different" as I could tell she had no interest.

Now this is where things get very interesting. A very very peppy man comes out and greets us "Trading in the Lexus huh" to which we both giggled and said no politely.

The man then began his Lexus sucks tirade the entire time we were there.

He is much better dressed and presentable than the Nissan salesman. He tells us he is the manager and begins dismissing my Lexus left and right. "Oh they are just advertising and some woodgrain, Acura has all the technology". This "Acura is technology" theme is repeated to us over and over (without really telling us what technology). My lady is looking at me thinking I am going to say something but I want to see how big of a ditch this guy is going to dig.

We tell him we came from looking at Maxima's and just came to see what they had. "Oh the Maxima is cheap, its awful, its no Acura". Huh. We look over a 2010 MDX with the beak and she doesn't like it much either. I like the saddle interior though (she doesn't like that either).

He then tells us to look at this TL that only "500" are made in that color. I think its rather only 500 are sold b/c its an ugly *** color, a brown turd color. We are not told anything about the car. "Oh Lexus doesn't have the technology of this car, this car is a tech marvel"......riiiiggggggggght

He goes inside and gets the salesman to help us. This guy was nice but it was another poor salesman. He jumps on the "Acura is technology" trip but at least we are spared why Lexus sucks. So without asking really what we wanted, we are pointed to this ugly brown TL with NAV. There were AWD on the lot and it was NEVER brought up. I mean I would be much more interested in that vehicle and they NEVER even told us there is a FWD and an AWD model. Sigh......

Exterior
The pros are it looks well built, the paint seems solid. To the Maxima's credit, it didn't feel any better built. Fit and finish was good. The bad is it is simply a horrible looking vehicle and no need for me to harp on this. The spoiler helps according to my lady but the base model with the 17" tires is really really bad. There is no way in hell I would have my fiance driving such an ugly car. Sorry.

Interior
Acura interiors have always been solid for the most part with a few bad exceptions. This is a generally well built interior. The top of the dash is a soft plastic which I liked but then you get to the console and geezus there are like 500 buttons. My lady commented to the salesman "this is slightly overbearing" and pointed to the buttons. The gauges are big and nice if busy with those silver rings. The doors feel solid but I did not like the plastic used on the grap handle. This car had some odd plastic/aluminum that sweeps over the dash and I didn't like it. It grabs your attention which some may like but it just seems overdone. My lady liked the shifter feel and we both liked the armrest, USB port and the outlet on the passenger side of the console. The front seat felt fine and no different than the Maxima to me. The rear also felt no bigger than the Maxima. This is an issue for me as the TL is a really big car at 194 inches long and a whopping 74 inches wide. The use of space is horrid. It should be much more spacious inside. It felt smaller than a Malibu, Camry, Accord. I have no idea where the width went. Poor engineering.

Technology?
This is the entire sales pitch to us. "Acura is technology". So do you know what this salesman sat in the car with us for nearly 20 minutes to use and talk about. The NAV system. That is the entire sales pitch, revolved around NAV. Now it is a good NAV system and the screen is big and I liked some tricks like a "screensaver" you can use or the music "note" you can save so you can go back to that song from XM radio. He also showed us the real time weather.

So I'm in the backseat thinking "well my NAV has most of this I just don't use it with my car and I wouldn't use it with this one". We literally sat there for near 20 minutes as he practiced and told my G/F about the NAV. We didn't hear one damn thing about the car?

Technology? I think not. My iPhone has those NAV features and our Garmin does too. What about the CAR? Can someone tell me about that?

The ride/drive
We finally drive off and the salesman never asked once if "I am okay" and I wasn't, the seat was pushed all the way back. We both get a nice drive around and are told how smooth tranny shifts (it shifts like any tranny). The engine sounds and feels like the VQ in the Maxima. Rough on idle, good power driving around, more than abundant and like an ES 350. The ride was like the Maxima's to me, good isolation. The car handled like it to me except the steering felt slightly electronic sometimes. No deal breaker but not some Porsche like some people will have you believe. There was considerable lean.

With me pushing it harder, you feel the added mass as again, this is a big vehicle. The last TL felt sportier to me stock for stock (more on this later). The front end dips and it feels wide in corners. To me it was basically a wider ES 350 with no wood and slightly better steering/sport. I think most buyers would be happy with this model once they get past the looks. No glaring faults to me. No way in hell is this some GS/E-class/5 series etc competitor. The FWD is apparent when pushed in a corner but not as bad as the last TL.

The brakes were fine for me with good feedback. My lady complained at first but I told her give them a second to heat up. After they did I asked her about them again and she said they were fine. The driving position is fine with the NAV high up but this car should have more space considering its dimensions. The NAV with the reverse cam was like newer models with the lines that turn in your direction. This is very helpful in reversing in addition to a back up cam.

Extra tidbits
The salesman on the drive then explained to us how Acura's have 5 star safety and the highest residuals if you lease. My lady asked "how many airbags" and he didn't know. He then explained how the Maxima has awful residuals but the Altima has good ones. When she asked "how" he said "I never could figure that out". We were then told he used to sell Nissans.

That was it. We learned pretty much NOTHING about the car only about the NAV. Again we didn't get a brochure. We parked and walked around and I asked her about the RDX, RL and TSX they had parked together (all beak models) and she said she didn't like how they looked.

Then the manager comes out again. "see, that is technology, no Lexus has that stuff, Acura is all about technology". He beats up Lexus some more and at this point I'm like "okay enough is enough". The manager then tells us "we can add woodgrain to the TL, we can put that inside". He asked us how we like it and we both say "its nice" and we get business cards. The manager then continues his tirade "well Acura has technology, Lexus doesn't..they are nice cars but they are no Acuras".

At this point, I reply

"When Acura makes a 340hp hybrid that gets around 25 MPG, call me about that technology".

Priceless His face dropped to the floor and he looks at my car. "340hp"? Yes and its a hybrid, that sir is technology, not a navigation system. He then replies "well 340hp has to suck gas" and we both smile and say "good day thanks for your help".

Conclusion
Once you can get past the looks, the TL is a good car. It is no sports sedan in base trim. Its simply the Acura version of the ES 350 like the last few models. Both models are based on the Camry/Accord, both have a V-6, both are big in size, both are priced around the same. The ES leans more toward isolation and comfort and the TL leans more toward some sport. There is no confusing the TL for a vehicle that is in the next class up. It simply is not that good as I didn't find it much better than the Maxima. Both the ES and TL have nice interiors, nice options, nice NAV. The price out the door was 40k for this TL and like the Maxima included a paint package.

The salesman told us he has sold 6 TL models to past Toyota AVALON customers. This lets you know what the new Tl buyer is. There was an Avalon traded in on the lot before we got there.

Other Acuras
My lady had no interest in anything else. I tried hard to get her to look. She could not get passed the looks. The only vehicle she had some interest in was the MDX. She asked did I like it and I said it is my favorite Acura. She looks it over some more, checks out the interior and brings up the RX (as yall know she's drive the 09 and 10 version).

Compared to the last TL

I have a 1SICKREVIEW on the last TL. Its a favorite for many of us. In some areas the new TL has some better materials and some are a step down. This is no clear step up in drive or style, only in SIZE. What is sad is the new TL's interior simply isn't as big as it should be. The last TL to me was sportier as it was smaller and tidier. I did find the new TL tranny to be more responsive though they share the same 5 speed. I much prefer the design of the last TL inside and out.

Would I feel different if I drove an AWD model? I doubt it. I am sure I would like the drive better but the bottom line is I(we) could never get past the looks.

LexFather

Cliff notes:
Maxima and TL are amazingly now comparable (could NOT say that about the 2 last gens) and similar for around the same price. The Maxima looks fantastic where the TL completely fails and this is the main glaring difference between the two. The TL interior is better than the Maxima. Both drive similar, feel similar, idle similar, accelerate similar, brake similar, steer pretty similar. The TL's added dimensions do not add to significantly if any more room.

The Sales experience at both dealerships was pretty bad to both of us, my lady that knows not much about cars and to me that knows just a little bit .

Don't beat up other cars/brands especially when your company is in the technological stone age. It just sounds ****ing ignorant.

encore888

Great read, thanks for posting!!! I laughed through quite a bit of it too. There's one thing I don't get--salesmen trashing on the car make that their prospective customer drove in with--a few years back I mentioned a similar experience with an Audi sales manager. Seriously, is that the way you want to get a new customer? By making them feel bad about their prior car purchase? I don't get that.

Now, although I'm not saying that doesn't happen at Lexus dealerships, but in my experience the sales staff have been respectful and even complimentary of rival makes. Of course, one memorable experience at an Acura launch event was the salesman unsolicited giving a speech where he targeted Lexus, BMW, and MB for criticisms--Lexus for its NAVI lockout, BMW for its iDrive and MB for breaking down. I get that there are critiques for any brand, but bringing it up as a focus point over and over makes one look petty. If your product is good enough, it should be able to stand on its own merits rather than having to tear down others.

Haha!!! And to think that they were thinking of your car as a trade-in! IMHO, a GS 450h parked at an Acura or Nissan dealership outclasses anything on their lots in terms of technologically-advanced performance...first RWD full hybrid sedan on the planet, and a lightning-fast one to boot, with fine luxury and style.

On the evaluation side I do agree that the Nissan Maxima is much improved, and does seem to do entry-luxury without the badge; the TL does have an advanced NAV, as the salesman kept saying. I do think they are following corporate strategy with the 'Acura = technology' spiel. An ironic thing is how lately Acura has been indicating plans for hybrid cars...but I'm not going to beat a baby seal re: the second largest Japanese luxury brand. It's been a hard time for car sales and I wish those salesmen the best...although I wonder how they'd change tactics if they read this report.

whoster

my friend (not a car nut) had not seen a new TL.

another friend of mine and I had to break the news as to what had happened to the new one. We drove the older one together at a drive event some years ago and we both liked it, so he was ADAMANT that it could not possibly be that ugly, etc. etc...he put money on it that he'd buy dinner.


We drove by a Acura dealership on the way to dinner and he us bought dinner.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Heh...

I recently brought my wife to an Acura showroom. She looked around and said "I don't see anything that excites me". These were her exact words. Now believe or not, but the salesman that was assisting us said "Neither do I".

That really says it all, doesn't it?

Och

iTrader: (3)

Mike, why not consider an used 3GS for your girlfriend? You can easily find a used 430 with low miles for less than Maxima money.

rdgdawg

EXCELLENT Mike!!!

Agree 100% on assessments... have owned 2 Maximas and would take the new one over a TL ANY DAY!!!

Matt2828

Great review, I too LOVED the part where you go "At this point, I reply

"When Acura makes a 340hp hybrid that gets around 25 MPG, call me about that technology". "


HAHAHA! Nicely done, nicely done!

TripleL

Awesome write up 1SICK!! Thank you.

I have to say the new Maxima is a real head turner when I see one on the street. Glad to hear it has an improved interior and is a nice drive too.

I know you want to see the SE still but after driving the SV did your fiancée (congrats again btw!) ever comment as to whether she could see herself driving and enjoying the car as a daily driver?

Also if there is one thing she would change in the car what would it be? I know its kind of a weird question but its always one I ask my wife, and I know if I get an answer that's trivial I know we are on the right track

TorontoIS

Great read, thanks for posting it. I had the previous generation TL and it was definitely much better looking than the current. Neither however are anywhere near the IS 350 that I currently have though. I very much doubt that I'd buy another Acura ever again.

LexusChris

iTrader: (1)

Thanks 1Sick for the review on the Maxima and TL, made me giggle too with the commentary. The new Maxima is quite common here in NYC looks really sharp, although i'm not sure I would spend that much on a Nissan sedan. The TL with the 18 inch rims model I saw one near my house earlier to pay one of my bills, is still a odd looker, I don't know what Acura was thinking.

LexFather

Thanks everyone. I really was surprised by the "crap on Lexus" tactic. I've heard that from a BMW salesman before but I can "understand" that (BMW/*****/BMW is arguably superior in some ways). I cannot fathom an Acura employee beating up any other brand or car, the Maxima included. I let the guy go on and on until I said my only rebuttal, which was a TKO. My lady got in the car laughing "baby that was hilarious". As I will tell Och below, I DID THEM A FAVOR bringing her in to check the vehicles out. Its not like she has ever asked me to go check them out!

Yes it does. I literally did Acura a favor bringing her to the dealership. She has no inclination to drive or check one out. Her experience didn't change anything about her perceptions.

This will go in my "shopping" thread.....she might just get the 450h and I might just drive the 2GS around until we decide (not to mention wedding, new home, yadda yadda). We actually got offered a tremendous deal on an AWD GS 300 at my Lexus dealer but we were like "no we are NOT going to drive the same car".

A lot of previous owners share this sentiment. I mean the guy said 6 Avalons were traded in for a TL?

Funny but the Nissan dealer had a black TL-S on the lot....still looks sweet.

Neophyte

Great Review! I own a black on black 2009 Maxima SV Sport with the Tech package and I must agree on what Mike has said. The interior is leagues better than the last gen Max. The ride is a little harsher with the 19s that come on the Sport edition but not so much more than the 18s. I do experience brake fade over long drives or if I am doing city driving which in the DC area is a bunch of stop and go. I love that the CVT has a SPORT mode which acts like a 6 speed auto, thats the mode I keep it in even though regular CVT mode is just fine too. The Navigation system is one of the best I've ever experienced and the 9.3 gig hard drive is awesome, no more cd's! Also with the Sport Package you do lose the 60/40 fold down seats and trunk space. You instead get a small pass through that I assume is for ski's or golf clubs and the trunk is smaller (not much) due to the rear STB. It also has a heated steering wheeel which rocks on these cold mornings if you dont have gloves on.

Although its a "Sporty" sedan, I wouldnt call is a 4DSC. But its still an amazing car that I dont regret purchasing. Mike I bought my car from Carmax in White Marsh, MD which they sell new Nissans and my dealer experience was phenomenal, I got mines for 33k with a 6yr/100k warranty which nissan sent me a letter two months ago extended the CVT transmission to 10yrs/120k for free! You can always see if there is a Carmax that sells new Nissans near you because they are cheaper than the typical Nissan dealership.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

very very interesting and entertaining reviews mike, i like them!

i just think it's sad when salesman (or manager) don't know enough about cars. i don't mind them ditching on other brands, afterall they are trying to sell their stuff. but know your competition and do it "right". trashing others when they don't even know what cars others offer...