LexFather

Yes it does. As a matter of fact when I test drove it the salesman told me specifically "I have had 6 AVALON buyers trade in for it" and he showed me the 1998 or so Avalon that was traded in that day.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...ht=1sickreview
The TL is an Accord based car. It does not compete with the GS, M35, 528 and not one magazine comparo has done so. It is an entry level car.

Do some people compare to the IS/3 and even 5/GS. Yup, but the vast minority.

Did you MISS the fact BUICK targets BOTH cars?
http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/09/...cts---yet.html
Buick officials have said they think the LaCrosse's blend of style, content and value will put the car on the consideration list of intenders for import entry-luxury sedans such as the Lexus ES 350 and Acura TL.



Yeah doubt it is a 0 series....

I seriously doubt its 40k, Incentives are ridiculous on the car. And the TL and ES are priced near IDENTICAL. Both start at 35k, both can hit 45k loaded.

LexFather

It has a 35k base MSRP just like the ES 350. So by your logic the ES blurs it too? The IS 350, 335, G37 all start around 35k as well.

Nope it is entry level.


50% are not AWD, 85% are FWD. The split is 85/15. 5% hope to be manuals.

TwiBlueG35

Lexus has as many entry level cars as BMW does, or may be even less than BMW. ES + IS + HS + CT = 3-series sedan + 3-series coupe + diesel 3-series + 3-series wagon + 3-series convertible. And BMW even has 1-series which Lexus still has no answer of.

(Cj)

Wow this thread got derailed.

The Acura TL is ugly. Who in their right mind would compare one with a GS??? For one the TL doesn't even have basic luxuries that are standard in this class like real wood trim. Secondly the TL doesn't offer a V8 option.

It's simple as that.

You don't get it. BMW has one entry level series with multiple bodies and engines. Lexus has three lines of entry level sedans. They have very little differentiation in the entry level like BMW and Audi has.

Anyway if you're going to sparse models like that you have to factor in the the IS has a sedan and convertible model . The IS line is going to continue growing and further crowd things and confuse things.

My opinion on what could be done to alleviate the problem is simple. Move the ES up market to the $40K price bracket, up the HS's power and efficiency and improve its aesthetics, then they'll have room to fully expand the IS line into a full line, and then they can bring the CT into the entry level and have a few variants of that as well (Coupe and 3 door).

pagemaster

I made a mistake, I stand corrected. I kept thinking RL while I was writing TL.

The TL in fact does not compete with the GS. The TL competes more along the lines with the IS350/MAXIMA/CTS...not really a ES350 comparison, but on technical merits, FWD/Accord based then yes. .

encore888

The massive array of BMW entry-level models is a good point, and Lexus is making that move with the IS line. Meanwhile, the ES line straddles the border, with the hybrids CT and HS possibly adding excess variety or not.

joe80

I really don't care if Lexus makes more entry level cars. I would love for them to bring the hatch and have more i4 options.

but what's disturbing is that Lexus is not doing what they do best.



i finally got to see RX interior few weeks ago, but it really is very disappointing. RX interior used to be flawless. i really don't care for weird shapes.

i really do hope lexus doesn't go crazy on interior design.

LexFather

Those two look nothing alike. I feel the RX interior is superb. It is so different to anything today or in the past. Very styling yet still full or great ergonomics. It has lost some wood in the process but that does not bug me much if at all.





The CT is the first Lexus to really seem non Japanese in style and it may make some new customers happy but previous Lexus owners might not like it. I like it as well but I think its really going to throw Americans off (as the entire car).

The HS interior is my least favorite. Very ergonomic but just not my cup of tea.

joe80

never said those two look a like. nothing looks like RX interior. it has that weird shape which i really don't care for.

i'm just comparing the quality. you don't have to post a highres. i already sat on it. it's disturbingly weird.

(Cj)

I completely agree with 1SICKLEX on the RX. That interior is 10 years ahead of it's time IMO and it doesn't look weird. It looks futuristic and luxurious at the same time. I love it

I also agree that the CT has a very different feel from other Lexus. I also like it and I don't think the interior or even the styling are going to be the main issues Americans are going to have with it. It looks fine. The problem is going to be all the auto mags harping, groaning, and *****ing that the car is underpowered/cheap/toyota-like etc etc etc. If Americans see through that then the CT could have a bright future.

Anyway, I think the HS's interior is interesting, but it would probably have been better suited to a small crossover, not so much a sedan.

(Cj)

What was the other interior you posted? A Honda Odyssey or a Toyota Sienna???

joe80

honda odyssey

joe80

it's definitely love/hate design. some people will love that organic shape.

as far as refinement is concerned, lexus went backward on this. i'll take the last gen RX in a heartbeat.


I do love the new CT's interior design. it's one of the best in the segment IMO.

IS-SV

Counting and making up categories of what are supposed entry level cars is not how Lexus became the #1 premium car brand in the United States.

venom21

If only they would get rid of the digital clocks, so tacky.