LexFather

Yup. I mean Porsche has the Boxster and Cayman and a sub entry level car is coming. I wonder will it be too many entry level cars.

FYI CJ this is in no way directed towards you. This thread asks a good question.

pagemaster

Actually the RX costs less than the MDX. The RX starts at $37k while the MDX starts at $43, option for option they are about the same. As for the ML, that starts at $45k and offers hybrid/AMG/Diesel/V8/V6...that puts it in a class that simply is higher than the RX (although the RX does offer a hybrid) it is possible to cross-shop some RX configs with RX but not many. Like I said earlier, people forget the Lexus starts and usually is cheaper than BMW/Audi/Merc

Yes that would be about right. The GX also goes up against the Merc GL

pagemaster

To me, the Lexus lineup has always looked like this.

Category 1
Audi A1, A3, A4
Benz C class
Lexus IS
BMW 1, 3
Cadillac CTS

Category 2
Lexus has ES, HS
Buick-Lacrosse, Lucerne (that is 2 out of their 3 models)
Acura-TSX, TL (that is 2 out of their 3 cars)
Toyota Avalon Platinum
Merc A, B
Cadillac DTS

Category 3
Audi A6/A8
Lexus GS/LS/SC
BMW 5/7
Merc E/S/SL etc

Both Category 1 and 2 are entry lexel models but they don't compete with one another nor should they be compared or cross-shopped...also, the category numbers are not rankings

I think we have to wait to see how the Lexus CT holds up against the competition to really know where it should be placed.

SecPole14

I didn't read through this thread, but I don't think Lexus has too many entry-level cars. The problem is, does Lexus have the right KIND of entry level cars?

In my opinion, no. They should have a sport-oriented entry-level model that doesn't rely on hybrid tech. I wish they had a true 1-series or Volvo C30 competitor.

We can only hope for a Lexus-fied version of the upcoming FT-86...

LexFather

If Lexus gets a version of the FT-86.....oh joy

-J-P-L-

Well, the IS is the sport oriented entry model. I see what you're saying though. You want a smaller, less expensive sport model. The difference though, is in Lexus case, that area is covered by Toyota (or should be).

Lexus shouldn't dip below the $30K area. BMW doesn't have a "parent" company - it is the parent company. So aside from Mini, a 1-series makes sense for BMW but when we're talking about Lexus, keep the cheaper cars under Toyota.

(Cj)

Yeah, I started this thread because I wanted to see what other Lexus owners felt because Lexus's entry cars are regularly bished on the internet

This is true, but that's really a whole 'nother issue. I don't think it's bad that Lexus's are usually a few grand cheaper than the Germans. The prices over at BMW and particularly Mercedes are far too bloated. Anyway for the most part Lexus's are more expensive than Audi's when similarly equipped so Lexus's isn't the cheapest luxury brand out there.

I completely agree.

I think what it comes down to is not the amount of entry level cars, but the type of entry level cars. Instead of having 3 sedans at the same price point it would be cool if they had more diversity at the entry level like BMW and Audi have.

I'm 100% for a Lexus FT-86

LexFather

Lexus has never gotten credit in the past by the media or most people for not dipping down. They didn't have any 4 cylinder until the IS 220d and no hatches. Instead people still called them fancy Toyotas. Lexus has been a super success story but they will not and cannot please all.

If Lexus is to grow in Europe, China and other markets it has to get in this field. People clearly are willing to pay for small cars that technically might be in Toyota territory but they want the badge, better built etc. People are buying the German sub compacts. The CT is no rebadge.

BMW's 0 series is coming too, FWD, based on the Mini

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...2-ar81417.html

pagemaster

I don't think people need to bish about entry level Lexus models as long as they know what category they are putting them in.

Cross-shopping a Toyota Avalon a Lexus ES350 a Buick Lucerne and a perhaps a Cadillac DTS is the right thing to do....bish all you want about the ES and how it does not hold up in this class of vehicles all you want if that holds true... But comparing a ES350 to a Acura TL and then bishing about the ES is stupid.

LexFather

Contrary to popular internet belief the ES and TL have always been cross shopped. Hell the first gen TL looked like an ES down to the frameless windows. Both are large for their class, both are based on less platforms (Camry/Accord) and both are sold for America mainly.

Buick even mentioned the ES and TL in a Lacrosse ad. The TL is sportier and the ES is more luxurious but both are the volume sedans for each brand.

pagemaster

The TL is not the car to cross-shop against the ES. I can't believe how totally wrong people are. Pontiacs were a good car to cross-shop the TL with ....but in all honesty, the TL competes with the GS350/Inifiniti M35/BMW 528....it doesn't do very well but that is the class it should be compared to.

-J-P-L-

Wow, that looks really good! Far better looking than the 1-series. The name is a bit silly ("0-series",? lol). Next, they'll announce the negative 1-series,

-J-P-L-

That's what I keep saying but some people just don't want to admit it.

The TL's sticker averages $40K. I don't know why people lump it in with the entry class.

pagemaster

Its border-line entry class....its at the low end of the class it is now..I think the reason why people lump it in with entry class is because it is FWD. All the major players in the $40k-$50k segment are usually RWD

-J-P-L-

Yeah, it is borderline. Thing is, Acura plays its segments differently and their models overlap others' model lines. The TL does come in FWD, but about half of the ones sold, are now AWD ($43K with nav).