October 2009 Official Sales Thread

[1SICKLEX]

Welcome to clublexus CJ!

I love both genesis's but the bottom line is they expected to sell 50k of both and its not even close

in all honesty I want them to sell! Hyundai needs to step up with more effective marketing!

[joe80]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

Welcome to clublexus CJ!

I love both genesis's but the bottom line is they expected to sell 50k of both and its not even close

in all honesty I want them to sell! Hyundai needs to step up with more effective marketing!

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/20/h...rid-coming-in/

20k for sedan, and 30k for coupe.

i think the coupe is a huge disappointment sales wise. my neighbor just bought a camaro, and he didn't even know genesis coupe existed. if the 4banger was priced 19k-24k than it would help the sale, but it's about 3k more than it should be.

[1SICKLEX]

Suburu is doing it big! I think everyone is surprised.

I wonder if the Camaro is hurting the genesis coupe? The mustang is new and the challenger sold over 2500 units.

[joe80]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

Suburu is doing it big! I think everyone is surprised.

I wonder if the Camaro is hurting the genesis coupe? The mustang is new and the challenger sold over 2500 units.

definitely, but i think price is hurting gen coupe more. it's about 3k more than it supposed to be. 4banger needed to be priced like tiburon. my local dealers have several 4bangers and all of them were over 25k.

Rspec should be a good addition, but it doesn't even have a cruise control. hyundai needs to start throwing 3-4k rebates to move the car.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by joe80

definitely, but i think price is hurting gen coupe more. it's about 3k more than it supposed to be. 4banger needed to be priced like tiburon. my local dealers have several 4bangers and all of them were over 25k.

Rspec should be a good addition, but it doesn't even have a cruise control. hyundai needs to start throwing 3-4k rebates to move the car.

The prices on new Hyundai models in the past few years have been too high.

[1SICKLEX]

The crazy thing is they probably still r very profitable just based on exchange
rate.

[SLegacy99]

Mmmmm. Subaru, one of the best kept secrets until now. Good for them.

[Gojirra99]

http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/11/...10-models.html

.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

I swear to Zeus's nipples I am so freaking tired of Acura sounding like asses in the news. I am tired of them being in the news. Here they are "spinning" what most people with any common sense knows.

The 4th gen TL is a complete failure and utter disaster.

Acura execs are completely disillusioned and continue to show the public they are clueless. They are acting like the TL was the only new car launched in an economic crisis. They continue to only blame the economy. Funny but the TL can't outsell MUCH OLDER vehicles in its class. We are not talking about a 10 or even 20% drop. We are talking a 35-40% drop in sales. Last month was a 45% drop in sales. I cannot remember the last time I saw the TL sell under 3,000 units in a month. Mind you, October was a VERY strong month this year for many auto brands.
Last year, Lexus acknowledged "we have some quality issues" and is fixing them. When Carlos Ghosen got the job at Nissan he told his team "WE are the problem" when they tried to blame outside factors.

Acknowledging YOU are the problem is the first step. Acura continues to not do that.

The first gen TL didn't do much for Acura but the 2nd gen did when they moved production to Ohio to cut costs and decided to make it for the American market. To their credit they got it right, the car sold well, the price was cheaper than the competition and you got a loaded car.
The third gen came and really put the TL on the map as one of the all around greats. The styling was one of the main reasons it sold so well inside and out. It also was value priced and was the best selling Acura sedan ever.
The fourth gen is slightly more refined but no faster and more expensive and much uglier. WTF?

Definitely agreed.

I also am tired of "auto analysts" who don't know what they're talking about.

"It wasn't a good time to introduce any car, really," said Ed Kim, director of industry analysis for AutoPacific, a research group in Tustin, Calif.

Oh really Ed Kim? I guess it was a really bad time to introduce the new RX and new E-Class as well then since their sales are suffering ... oh wait .

A GOOD product will sell regardless of a recession or not. RX and E-Class sales right now are proving that. Even Lexus ES sales are very solid in this economy.

They say the TL's sales outperformed many other
vehicles in the entry-level luxury segment,

Completely incorrect statement by Acura executives. In terms of sales, the TL is near the bottom of the entry-level luxury segment. It outsells only a *few* vehicles in the segment. The majority of vehicles in the segment are outselling the TL.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

that is absurd. goals are just that, goals, and if not met, that doesn't mean something's a failure. again you fail to miss the many points. hyundai has accomplished a GREAT deal with the genesis. people are talking about hyundai. they ARE selling, fairly consistently. it takes TIME to take a brand's perception upward. with just ONE model (the coupe doesn't really count because it's certainly not a luxury vehicle and i'm sure the sales numbers are tiny even though it's a great vehicle), that makes the sale harder. acura, audi, infiniti would love to have genesis sales "failure". you just continue to pour the haterade on hyundai.

No, the only thing absurd has been the huge uncalled-for hype regarding the Genesis.

- Fact: the Genesis is nowhere close to meeting Hyundai's sales goals.
- Fact: the Genesis is one of the lowest selling cars in it's price range, and in the entry-level luxury class. It could even be THE lowest selling vehicle in it's segment if we had a breakdown of sedan vs coupe sales.

Yes goals are just that, goals but this is not the first time Hyundai has had lofty and unrealistic goals and it is not the first time they've failed to meet their goals. This is failure for Hyundai because *once again* they have inaccurately predicted demand for one of their products and have incorrectly judged the market. If a company continually makes unrealistic sales goals and never learns from their mistakes that is very clearly failure.

"The coupe doesn't count" is a really poor excuse. When the coupe came out, there was BIG hype about it, including hype from certain CL members that shall remain nameless, but they know who they are. Now that sales have fallen flat, and the hype has died down people are using the excuse "the coupe doesn't count". Of course the coupe counts, WHY ELSE would Hyundai name the coupe the Genesis coupe and not the Tiburon? Obviously Hyundai has positioned the coupe to be part of the Genesis line, and also combining sales with the sedan makes both the coupe and sedan sales look better than they really are, despite the coupe and sedan being two distinctly different products.

Acura, Infiniti, Audi would "love" to have Genesis sales? What are you talking about? Even the Acura TL, which is struggling sales-wise right now, outsold the Genesis coupe and sedan combined and will CONTINUE to outsell the Genesis coupe and sedan most likely in the future. That shows just how BAD Genesis sales are. The Infiniti G sedan alone outsold the Genesis line, and the Audi A4 had sales almost double that of the Genesis line for October.

Also how exactly do you define "fairly consistently"? Genesis sales have been a rollercoaster really.

Here is a graph showing Genesis sales over time:



Not sure what you define as "consistent" but that does not look like consistent sales to me.

See that red square signifying March 2009 sales? That was the first full month when the coupe was on-sale.

The Hyundai Azera and Veracruz were supposed to be "great things" for the Hyundai brand too, and now their sales are at rock bottom and those models are basically invisible to the average consumer.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

about lexus sales... some good spin comments in here about total sales leadership, but lexus is the is,rx,es company - those 3 vehicles accounted for 85% of all sales. everything else is dead, except the HS with an ok money and the LS which is not huge but not bad for a higher priced vehicle. gs, sc, gx, lx are all dead.

For the month:

- Fact: C-Class, E-Class, and M-Class accounted for 69% of Mercedes sales
- Fact: the Infiniti G *alone* accounted for 60% of Infiniti sales
- Fact: 3 Series, 5 Series, and X5 accounted for 82% of BMW sales
- Fact: A4, A5, and Q5 accounted for 73% of Audi sales

- Based on my calculations, for the month IS, ES, and RX accounted for 81% of Lexus sales, not 85%. Not sure where you got 85% from.

I won't even bring up the fact that GX inventory is almost non-existent because the 2nd-gen GX is about to go on-sale in about 2 months or so.

These are simple market facts and economic facts; less-expensive, volume models sell the most, with very few exceptions.

So in summation, what exactly is your point?

[joe80]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Definitely agreed.

Of course the coupe counts, WHY ELSE would Hyundai name the coupe the Genesis coupe and not the Tiburon? Obviously Hyundai has positioned the coupe to be part of the Genesis line, and also combining sales with the sedan makes both the coupe and sedan sales look better than they really are, despite the coupe and sedan being two distinctly different products.

assumption at its best. No one knows why hyundai named BK a genesis coupe. maybe hyundai is hinting a new luxury brand? maybe they couldn't think of a better name? maybe it was just too good to be called a tiburon?

who knows...

anyway, hype doesn't always translate to sales. but hype does help the brand's perception. these two cars are worthy of massive hype. it's great friggin cars. if you haven't driven one go ahead and try it. you wouldn't believe how far hyundai has come. genesis won the most awards, and gen coupe held its own against many great cars. both of these cars aren't perfect, but it's a sign of a promising future. these two cars brought nothing but positive for hyundai. just think about it. before these two cars, they were just a value brand with boring lineups.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by joe80

assumption at its best. No one knows why hyundai named BK a genesis coupe. maybe hyundai is hinting a new luxury brand? maybe they couldn't think of a better name? maybe it was just too good to be called a tiburon?

who knows...

anyway, hype doesn't always translate to sales. but hype does help the brand's perception. these two cars are worthy of massive hype. it's great friggin cars. if you haven't driven one go ahead and try it. you wouldn't believe how far hyundai has come. genesis won the most awards, and gen coupe held its own against many great cars. both of these cars aren't perfect, but it's a sign of a promising future. these two cars brought nothing but positive for hyundai. just think about it. before these two cars, they were just a value brand with boring lineups.

Assumption, based on common sense.

Yes, the Genesis coupe and sedan are the best thing since sliced bread, and they are monumental products for Hyundai, we get it .

[TRDFantasy]

Top 10 sales - Japan

1. Toyota Prius - 31,728
2. Honda Fit - 17,241
3. Toyota Vitz - 12,731
4. Toyota Passo - 10,792
5. Honda Insight - 10,289
6. Honda Freed - 9,123
7. Nissan Note - 9,091
8. Nissan Serena - 8,827
9. Nissan Cube - 7,632
10. Toyota Wish - 7,468

[joe80]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Assumption, based on common sense.

Yes, the Genesis coupe and sedan are the best thing since sliced bread, and they are monumental products for Hyundai, we get it .

we are friggin talkin about hyundai for godsakes. just think about it. v8 RWD from korea? are you kidding me? sales success or not, it's the greatest thing ever happened to hyundai and korean cars. i drove 1996 hyundai sonata when i was in high school and i thought hyundai would go bankrupt before new millenium. it was ****ty car. lasted 115k, but it was a ****ty ride, ****ty everything. compare that to 96 accord or camry, it was pure garbage.

things are changed. and hyundai is on a role. seriously genesis is the start of the new era. that's why they named it genesis. both cars really are monumental, perception changing products for hyundai. slow sales doesn't mean it's a failure IMO. samsung had a slow sales compared to sony, but look what happened 16 years later.

genesis is probably the most significant car for a company. i really can't think of any other cars maybe except prius. genesis put hyundai on the map and now we all know hyundai will be the player in the car industry. even toyota president admits that.

[bitkahuna]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

- Fact: the Genesis is nowhere close to meeting Hyundai's sales goals.

fact: i don't care.

- Fact: the Genesis is one of the lowest selling cars in it's price range, and in the entry-level luxury class.

the first part, when you say 'one of', by the same logic you could say ALL but the highest selling are the lowest selling, but whatever, the FACT is you think hyundai has failed with the genesis and i don't.

the second part is your opinion, i don't consider it 'entry level'. it's rwd and offers a V8, making it more GS (only better value) than ES (a buick that works).

Yes goals are just that, goals but this is not the first time Hyundai has had lofty and unrealistic goals and it is not the first time they've failed to meet their goals. This is failure for Hyundai because *once again* they have inaccurately predicted demand for one of their products and have incorrectly judged the market. If a company continually makes unrealistic sales goals and never learns from their mistakes that is very clearly failure.

um, yeah, ok. have you run a business or done sales forecasting or marketing?

When the coupe came out, there was BIG hype about it, including hype from certain CL members that shall remain nameless, but they know who they are.

nice put down of, whoever they are, , but whatever.

Acura, Infiniti, Audi would "love" to have Genesis sales? What are you talking about? Even the Acura TL, which is struggling sales-wise right now, outsold the Genesis coupe and sedan combined and will CONTINUE to outsell the Genesis coupe and sedan most likely in the future. That shows just how BAD Genesis sales are. The Infiniti G sedan alone outsold the Genesis line, and the Audi A4 had sales almost double that of the Genesis line for October.

absurd comparisons IMO because those vehicles have been on the market for a decade or more, and gone through many iterations and are sold by dedicated luxury brands. plus a TL isn't comparable to a genesis. but keep drinking the koolaid. see, i don't care about hyundai's projections, i only care about your beloved 'facts', and to sell ANY significant amount of a NEW luxury car, under a brand not known for it, in one of the worst economies in memory, is IMO, remarkable. but you see it as an epic failure, so okay.

- Fact: C-Class, E-Class, and M-Class accounted for 69% of Mercedes sales
- Fact: the Infiniti G *alone* accounted for 60% of Infiniti sales
- Fact: 3 Series, 5 Series, and X5 accounted for 82% of BMW sales
- Fact: A4, A5, and Q5 accounted for 73% of Audi sales

- Based on my calculations, for the month IS, ES, and RX accounted for 81% of Lexus sales, not 85%. Not sure where you got 85% from.

ok, somehow i miscalced on lexus, so lexus is similar to bmw in 3 models accounting for 4/5ths of sales. while nothing to weep about, and given the age of the other models i'm sure lexus doesn't expect much more.

I won't even bring up the fact that GX inventory is almost non-existent because the 2nd-gen GX is about to go on-sale in about 2 months or so.

but you did bring up the fact.

So in summation, what exactly is your point?

how's that charm school going?

you think the genesis is a failure, because it hasn't met hyundai's announced sales projections, and i don't.

have a nice day.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

the second part is your opinion, i don't consider it 'entry level'. it's rwd and offers a V8, making it more GS (only better value) than ES (a buick that works).

Price range is not opinion, the car's price range is fact. It is a FACT that the Lexus GS is in a different price range. It is also a FACT that the Genesis price range puts it squarely in the entry-level luxury segment.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

um, yeah, ok. have you run a business or done sales forecasting or marketing?

Yes, I have. Why does this matter in this discussion?

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

absurd comparisons IMO because those vehicles have been on the market for a decade or more, and gone through many iterations and are sold by dedicated luxury brands. plus a TL isn't comparable to a genesis. but keep drinking the koolaid. see, i don't care about hyundai's projections, i only care about your beloved 'facts', and to sell ANY significant amount of a NEW luxury car, under a brand not known for it, in one of the worst economies in memory, is IMO, remarkable. but you see it as an epic failure, so okay.

In size, price range, interior volume, market segment, the TL is very comparable to the Genesis, as is the Infiniti G37 sedan.

You did a great job contradicting yourself, because here you said earlier:

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

acura, audi, infiniti would love to have genesis sales "failure".

So are these "absurd" comparisons, and is the TL not comparable, or would Acura, Audi, and Infiniti love to have Genesis sales? Which is it ?