Review Update: 2007 ES350 (I've changed my opinion a little on later models)

[mmarshall]

In May of 2006, I reviewed and test-drove the (then) all-new 2007 ES350; it was not only a totally new 4th-generation redesign, but increased the engine size from a 3.3 to a 3.5L V6, retaining the FWD layout. Here is the original review: You can see that my reviews, back then, were much less comprehensive, much shorter, and did not include Google images like they do now (I still don't have digital-camera downloading skills). In fact, compared to the reviews I do today, I'm somewhat ashamed of the ones I did back then.....they simply don't compare. But, anyhow, here's the original one:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...xus-es350.html

In all honesty, though, I was disappointed with the new 2007 model, in several areas. Its interior was missing the superb wood dash/door panels of the former ES330, had more cheapish plastic interior pieces and trim, lacked the overall warm look due to much less and artificial-looking wood trim, and, due to some poorly-fitted dash panels, showed some minor creaks and rattles (those creaks/rattes were apparantly an issue with early-production models). It also, unncessarily, IMO, had lower-profile tires (dropping from 60-series to 55), slightly firmer spring/shock damping (with no comfort-adjustable electronic-suspension setting), and, overall, a slightly stiffer, less-comfortable ride. However, to its credit (and I have to be fair here), the new ES350 did retain the superb Lexus paint job, butter-smooth, quiet drivetrain, excellent noise isolation in spite of the more-aggressive tires, and library-quiet demeanor of the car it replaced. So, in effect, it was a cocoon-quiet, somewhat firmer-riding replacement to the 330, with lower interior fit/finish and slightly poorer overall build quality. Yet, despite the interior fit/finish and dash-assembly problems, it also managed to keep its excellent reliability record with Consumer Reports, as most Lexus products have, except for the non-hybrid GS AWD models.

But, despite its good points, my overall negative view of the car remained, primarily because, in comparison, I was so impressed with the 330 that it replaced (indeed, I almost bought a 330, even with its transmission-ECU issue). Those of you who follow my posts and threads know how I have talked about the 350 over the years, so I won't rehash that any more of that than I already have here.

However, I got an interesting surprise this morning. A friend of mine (a guy I swim with every morning in the County Recreation Center's indoor pool to help stay in shape) had an old Camry with some engine problems that was going to cost some money to fix, and didn't want to fool with it any more. He and I talked about a possible mid-sized car replacement, and he asked about the new 2010 Taurus, Buick LaCrosse, and several other mid-sized cars (I showed him some of my reviews). His wife, however, decided she wanted a Lexus, and since she would be using the car quite often, and since he decided that it would be a good idea to skip the first-year depreciation, they went out to look at a Pearl White 2008 ES350 with 13,000 miles, at a local Lexus shop. The rest is history.....both of them liked it, got an excellent $5000 trade-in despite the worn motor (that surprised me), and took home the ES350. I wasn't actually there at the dealership when he and his wife bought it (his rather strong-willed wife likes to do this kind of thing herself), but he called me when he got home, and I came over (with my traditional car-warming gift to car-buyers of a bottle of SCRATCH-OUT), checked it out, and test-drove it to make sure there weren't any problems (it was a Certified Pre-Owned model, anyway, with an extended warranty), and I must say that it was a noticeable improvement from the initial early-production 2007 I reviewed. The White Pearl paint is always nice (it is, IMO, one of the classiest colors on the market, and this car had the clear-plastic film on the front of the hood to protect it). All four doors felt and sounded more solid, when they closed, than on the previous year model, even though it was probably the same sheet metal. The interior trim seemed better-fitted, the wood on the steering wheel was excellent, the wood-tone trim inside was still not the same as on the superb 330, but still looked nice anyway on this car. The seat leather was the usual Lexus smoothness/softness, the stereo was a killer (though not quite the LS460 Mark Levinson unit), and there were no audible creaks/rattles in spite of the car having some 13,000 miles on it. In addition, the drivetrain and noise isolation was the usual Lexus silky smoothness/quietness. It was even hard to tell the ride comfort from the 330...Lexus must have worked on that a little, in response to earlier compliants. With this car, the only thing I really missed from the 330 was the superb dash-wide and door-panel wood trim.......the 330 had some of the classiest, most extensive, best-looking wood trim on the market.

So, I still retain my mixed opinion (and some disappointment) with the initial 2007 models, but the 2008 (and, presumably, 2009 model) seems to have made definite improvement in several areas. I was impressed enough with the 2008 model that I wouldn't mind owning one myself now.

Guys....I'm honest, but objective. I stand by my opinions, but if something credible comes along to change them, I'm open-minded enough to admit it.







(Not the actual car......similiar Google images)

[MPLexus301]

I saw my first 2010 model today...seems even nicer.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by MPLexus301

I saw my first 2010 model today...seems even nicer.

Yes, I heard they are making further interior improvements for 2010. I still miss the superb 330 interior, though.

I might stop by and briefly check out a 2010, but I'm not going to write up a formal review.

[Joeb427]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Yes, I heard they are making further interior improvements for 2010. I still miss the superb 330 interior, though.

I might stop by and briefly check out a 2010, but I'm not going to write up a formal review.

Looking forward to reading about your thoughts on the '10,MM.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by Joeb427

Looking forward to reading about your thoughts on the '10,MM.

Thanks. I saw, in one of the LaCrosse threads, where you just bought a new ES350 yourself. Congragulations.

Originally Posted by Joeb427

I looked at the LaCrosse and just bought a......

[Joeb427]

Thanks,Mike.
IMO,the interior of the '10 looks more luxurious with the chrome accent on the wood trim,steering wheel,NAV center dash trim and the added glove box chrome accent and wood trim.

[SLegacy99]

I like the ES350 it just doesn't cater to me as a 23 year. But then neither does the IS.

I do think that the front bumper is pretty sterile looking.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by SLegacy99

I like the ES350 it just doesn't cater to me as a 23 year. But then neither does the IS.

To each his own, of course (and it's hard to go wrong wth the Subies you and I drive), but we've had ES owners in their 20's right here on CL. It's unusual, but not rare by any means.

And the IS250 has an AWD option just like our Subies, but not the ground clearance....it sits even lower then the Legacy.

[1SICKLEX]

Pretty good updated review on your thoughts. Different. Thanks

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

Pretty good updated review on your thoughts. Different. Thanks

Yep. As soon as I saw the car, sat in it, and drove it, I knew that I had to pull that old review back up from the dead and modify it.

At Joeb427's suggestion, I think I'll have at least a look (if not a review) at the new 2010.

[trukn1]

I too was quite impressed with the ES350, like yourself, was also quite surprised at how much I liked it. I took my LS in to the dealer earlier this year to have the PS rack and pump replaced and was given a brand new 09 ES350 as a loaner; car only had about 600 miles on it. The ride was silky smooth, interior felt wonderful and I actually felt quite at home in this car. My ONLY complaint, and it was actually a point which kinda concerned me, was the car had a tendency to get "light" in the front end. There were times while driving, I wanted to see what the car had in the way of passing power and it did not feel too kosher at all. Don't get me wrong, the car had and felt like it had plenty of power to get the job done, but the feedback through the steering wheel was a bit bothersome. A few times I would mash the gas and it just felt like the entire front end of the car just got really light and seemed like it was barely on the ground. Steering at this point was still there,however, it just seemed like the car wanted to "run away" from under me and the steering wheel feel made me feel a little uneasy about it. Other than that, I like Mike, actually liked the car and also wouldn't mind adding one as maybe a daily driver. Mike when you do your re-vised review, check on this point and see if you get the same feel that I did with the "lightness". I got this at highway speeds when passing, quickly, as well as taking off from a dead stop a few times. Find an abondoned area, dead stop the car and do a 0-60 mph test and you may experience what I did. Would be interested in your findings as well.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by trukn1

I too was quite impressed with the ES350, like yourself, was also quite surprised at how much I liked it. I took my LS in to the dealer earlier this year to have the PS rack and pump replaced and was given a brand new 09 ES350 as a loaner; car only had about 600 miles on it. The ride was silky smooth, interior felt wonderful and I actually felt quite at home in this car. My ONLY complaint, and it was actually a point which kinda concerned me, was the car had a tendency to get "light" in the front end. There were times while driving, I wanted to see what the car had in the way of passing power and it did not feel too kosher at all. Don't get me wrong, the car had and felt like it had plenty of power to get the job done, but the feedback through the steering wheel was a bit bothersome. A few times I would mash the gas and it just felt like the entire front end of the car just got really light and seemed like it was barely on the ground. Steering at this point was still there,however, it just seemed like the car wanted to "run away" from under me and the steering wheel feel made me feel a little uneasy about it. Other than that, I like Mike, actually liked the car and also wouldn't mind adding one as maybe a daily driver. Mike when you do your re-vised review, check on this point and see if you get the same feel that I did with the "lightness". I got this at highway speeds when passing, quickly, as well as taking off from a dead stop a few times. Find an abondoned area, dead stop the car and do a 0-60 mph test and you may experience what I did. Would be interested in your findings as well.

Most of the cars I review are brand-new, so I don't completely max things out or go over 4000-4500 on the tach. But I do accelerate, brake, and handle hard enough to see what the car is basically capable of. Any car, to an extent, is going to have some rearward-weight transfer under hard acceleration, simply due to the laws of energy and physics, and may account for some of the"lightness" on the front wheels that you feel up front. Conversely, upon braking, weight is usually transfered forward...which is one of the reasons why rear-engine Porsches have such good braking distances. The forward weight transfer of the heavy rear end with braking places the center of the braking action in the middle of the car, on all four wheels equally.

In fact, FWD cars like the ES, because of the front-end weight bias, usually keep more of their weight forward on acceleration, so I'm a little surprised at the characteristics you note. It could be that you are just not used to the ES350's non-aggressive tires and comfort-biased chassis, though, admittedly, they are somewhat less so than on the previous ES330. The LS you are used to is RWD, with a slightly different weight-transfer ratio.

[trukn1]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Most of the cars I review are brand-new, so I don't completely max things out or go over 4000-4500 on the tach. But I do accelerate, brake, and handle hard enough to see what the car is basically capable of. Any car, to an extent, is going to have some rearward-weight transfer under hard acceleration, simply due to the laws of energy and physics, and may account for some of the"lightness" on the front wheels that you feel up front. Conversely, upon braking, weight is usually transfered forward...which is one of the reasons why rear-engine Porsches have such good braking distances. The forward weight transfer of the heavy rear end with braking places the center of the braking action in the middle of the car, on all four wheels equally.

In fact, FWD cars like the ES, because of the front-end weight bias, usually keep more of their weight forward on acceleration, so I'm a little surprised at the characteristics you note. It could be that you are just not used to the ES350's non-aggressive tires and comfort-biased chassis, though, admittedly, they are somewhat less so than on the previous ES330. The LS you are used to is RWD, with a slightly different weight-transfer ratio.

Yeah,, am familiar with this. The LS is actually my first RWD car, aside from an Eddie Bauer Expedition and a few Toyota Camry's prior to this. I wasn't trying to max the car out or anything, although my post suggest that I was. To me, the ES just had a bit of a disconnected feel with the road at faster speeds, which to me was just a little disconcerting. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the car and actually would not mind owning one.

[Matters]

It's interesting that you liked the old ES. I have an '05 build. I must say, I have no warm feelings for it. In fact I have no feelings either way. I liked the wood at first. But, now it just looks like too much.

The 05 ES is pretty sluggish and always hunting around for the right gear. I shake my head sometimes and wonder what they were thinking.

My old 98 GS300 and my 99 ES300 used to bring a smile to my face, this doesn't and never has. Compared to my 09 Volvo XC, it just feels really old.

But I just use it as my workhorse, so it doesn't really matter.

[MikeP]

Just bought a 2010 ES and I have to say that I am very impressed, something I would never have expected. This is my 5th Lexus, starting with an SC300 manual, a 2GS400, an LS400 and a LS430. When I drove ES330's for loaners, I couldn't wait to get back into my car. I found the ES to lack a quality feel, rattled and lacked substance.

When I decided to trade my '07 M35, I started looking around the Lexus lot and spotted the revised '10 ES. I liked the changes and decided to test drive one. While it didn't quite have the substantial feel of my LS, it seemed quieter and smoother. In fact, it appears that Lexus engineered everything to be "easy". The throttle response is effortless, the glove box open/closes easily, as does the trunk, etc. The interior now has a rick look and the leather on the seats felt softer than the leather in the LS460 on the showroom floor.

I now have my ES for almost a week and the more I drive it, the more I appreciate it. It also gets great fuel economy and the technology is first class, especially the eDestination capability. Can you tell I love this car?