Consumer Reports Annual Car Reliability Survey 2009

[I8ABMR]

Im sad to say this but I have to say that I am feeling that the there are certain issues I have with my GS that do show Lexus slipping . Whats the deal with the creaks in the console, dash rattles, and blemishes in my wood steering wheel . The service accuracy has seemed to take a dive at the last 3 visits I have had. I am sorry to say this but I am saying that Lexus is solid but there are other solid brands. They need to get their **** together. This is exactly what the American car companies will try to rub in the face of Lexus. Can you blame them?? I came to Lexus from Infiniti because I expected to be this infalable car. Not so. There is no excuse for interior rattles and noises

[I8ABMR]

Infiniti at number 4 and Lexus at 7. I guess the 3000 quality assurance employees they hired 2 years ago are finally starting to pay off. I never thought I would see the day that Infiniti produces a higher quality product than Lexus. With the base brands like Toyota I expect reliabilty because they are much more basic than a Lexus. I guess I will be looking at Infiniti and .... ( I am going to dare to say it).... BMW

[The G Man]

CR is suppose to have a minimum of 100 data sample before they consider the data valid. For the 2009 survey, I believe 1.3 million CR subscriber respond to their survey, yet some sample size were in the hundreds and some are in the tens of thousands. My problem with this type of method is that the weight of each survey is not equal, meaning one person who have a negative option of a low sample model car can change the final result much more than a person who is evaluating a car with a massive sample weight. This year CR actually broke their own rules by using sample rate below 100 for 3 of Ford's model.

I thing CR does a much better job when they rate things like appliance and tires where they actually test the product in their lab, but obviously, they cannot buy a million and test it. Never the less, they should really improve the way they conduct their car survey.

[LexBob2]

I agree that the CR method has flaws, all surveys do. But IMO it's still one of the better, if not the best, sources of this kind of information readily available to consumers.

Much more credible than word of mouth reports from my sister's boyfriend's parents, a friend of a friend etc.

I look at them for things that are of interest or important to me, and make my own decisons. Just one part of the fact finding process.

[IS-SV]

Originally Posted by LexBob2

I agree that the CR method has flaws, all surveys do. But IMO it's still one of the better, if not the best, sources of this kind of information readily available to consumers.

Much more credible than word of mouth reports from my sister's boyfriend's parents, a friend of a friend etc.

I look at them for things that are of interest or important to me, and make my own decisons. Just one part of the fact finding process.

I agree, that's exactly how I see it.

And I've put the individual model charts to the test by comparing it to actual cars that I've owned and found my experiences closely matched what they were reporting.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by IS-SV

And I've put the individual model charts to the test by comparing it to actual cars that I've owned and found my experiences closely matched what they were reporting.

I agree. CR's reliability ratings are pretty close to what I myself have experienced or seen among family, friends, and colleagues.
The one significant exception was my old 1984 Mazda, which was somewhat more unreliable than what CR averaged out for that year.

[I8ABMR]

how ever tested I think more ha a few of us have felt the Lexus slip over the past 5 years

[Threxx]

If CR wants anyone with any clue about surveying methods to take them seriously they need to begin polling the entire general public and not just their own readers. Until then their results are by default largely a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[The G Man]

Originally Posted by Threxx

If CR wants anyone with any clue about surveying methods to take them seriously they need to begin polling the entire general public and not just their own readers. Until then their results are by default largely a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That is so true, their polling public consist of their reader only and those readers are buying the cars the CR recommands. You guys see a trend here.

[bagwell]

Originally Posted by The G Man

That is so true, their polling public consist of their reader only and those readers are buying the cars the CR recommands. You guys see a trend here.

CR readers are not ONLY buying the cars CR recommends...

I bought a C6 for example and I'm a CR reader.

I find CR a VERY useful tool when buying something, but not the end-all source...its just another piece of information I use before buying.

[Threxx]

Originally Posted by bagwell

CR readers are not ONLY buying the cars CR recommends...

I bought a C6 for example and I'm a CR reader.

I find CR a VERY useful tool when buying something, but not the end-all source...its just another piece of information I use before buying.

Just because they don't always buy the cars CR recommends doesn't mean they don't buy CR recommended cars much more often than the typical non CR reader. So it doesn't mean it's a completely closed circuit polling method but it's still flawed.

[IS-SV]

Originally Posted by bagwell

CR readers are not ONLY buying the cars CR recommends...

I bought a C6 for example and I'm a CR reader.

I find CR a VERY useful tool when buying something, but not the end-all source...its just another piece of information I use before buying.

Exactly, a very useful tool for the educated amongst us.

[IS-SV]

I largely ignore what any magazine recommends (car magazine or consumer magazine or any magazine of any kind). In the case of CR I look at the specific model reliability charts by category (engine major, engine minor, suspension, auidio, etc.), I find this data to be helpful and useful.

And for that reason I'm not bothered by CR's biases.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by IS-SV

I largely ignore what any magazine recommends (car magazine or consumer magazine or any magazine of any kind). In the case of CR I look at the specific model reliability charts by category (engine major, engine minor, suspension, auidio, etc.), I find this data to be helpful and useful.

And for that reason I'm not bothered by CR's biases.

But reliabilty is one of the big factors in determining what CR does or doesn't recommend. To make the CR recommended list, a vehicle has to pass CR's review/driving tests, have an acceptably good Government crash-safety rating, have an established record of average or better reliability, and, in the case of SUV's and high-center-of-gravity vehicles, pass CR's own rollover tests, which are done with outriggers. Usually, with an all-new or extensively redesigned vehicle, it takes a year or so (and an adequate number of owners filling out the surveys) to start to establish a credible reliability record.....which is why newly-introduced or redesigned models are sometimes not on the Recommended List evrn though previous versions have done well and have been reliable. CR, for example, got burned a few of years ago with the all-new Camry, when they gave it a Recommended rating based in its past record of good reliability. V6 models, though, had defective automatic transmissions, and some older 3.0L V6s had oil sludge/gel problems from not changing the oil enough. CR learned from those experiences....and, now, no longer recommends vehicles based solely on past reliability. They now have to start over and prove themselves with each new model or redesign.

[IS-SV]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

But reliabilty is one of the big factors in determining what CR does or doesn't recommend. To make the CR recommended list, a vehicle has to pass CR's review/driving tests, have an acceptably good Government crash-safety rating, have an established record of average or better reliability, and, in the case of SUV's and high-center-of-gravity vehicles, pass CR's own rollover tests, which are done with outriggers. Usually, with an all-new or extensively redesigned vehicle, it takes a year or so (and an adequate number of owners filling out the surveys) to start to establish a credible reliability record.....which is why newly-introduced or redesigned models are sometimes not on the Recommended List evrn though previous versions have done well and have been reliable. CR, for example, got burned a few of years ago with the all-new Camry, when they gave it a Recommended rating based in its past record of good reliability. V6 models, though, had defective automatic transmissions, and some older 3.0L V6s had oil sludge/gel problems from not changing the oil enough. CR learned from those experiences....and, now, no longer recommends vehicles based solely on past reliability. They now have to start over and prove themselves with each new model or redesign.

Exactly my point, I read the data and I review their findings carefully and read their recommendations. And yes we are all aware of what CR does and doesn't do.

Then I reach my own conclusion, since I'm well qualified and experienced enough to do so. By reaching my own conclusion, often it agrees with their recommendations, sometimes it doesn't.