MotorWeek face-off: Prius, Insight, Fusion, Jetta TDI, A3 TDI & Smart

[nthach]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Useless in snow? Not so sure about it. The new Prius has more torque than the old model, and torque always helps in snow. I can't imagine the Prius being any more useless in snow than a typical 4 cylinder Honda. I've driven torque-less Hondas in snow, and they are quite close to useless.

Even a Huffy has a better time in the snow than a Honda.

[The G Man]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Really? I guess you haven't seen/read the reviews for the Gen 3 Prius over in Europe. European car mags and car shows actually *like* the handling of the new Prius, so that should tell you how much of an improvement it is over the Gen 2 in terms of being fun.

Useless in snow? Not so sure about it. The new Prius has more torque than the old model, and torque always helps in snow. I can't imagine the Prius being any more useless in snow than a typical 4 cylinder Honda. I've driven torque-less Hondas in snow, and they are quite close to useless.

Maybe you are right, maybe Toyota and Lexus have finally gotten sick of hearing reviewer making fun of their handling. I know that the new RX handles a bit better, maybe the new Prius does too. Never the less, compare a Prius' handling to a Audi is pretty much a joke.
Torque means nothing in the snow if there is no traction. The Prius with those low roll resistance tires will not do very good in the snow.

[nthach]

My parents got through Tahoe snow in a 1986 Mercedes 420SEL with Michelin Energy MXV4 tires - and those were 1st generation LRR tires, Michelin also gave those the Radial XSE designation. The new Prius uses Yokohama non-LRR or Bridgestone Ecopia LRR tires.

I was able to cruise past SUVs after a snowfall on I-80 with no traction aids on a set of 15% worn Michelin Pilots as well...

[1SICKLEX]

The Fusion 32 might sound bad but still, that is a very high MPG figure for a mid size sedan.

Originally Posted by The G Man

I havent driven the HS yet but we have 2 08 Prius at work and they pretty much drive like a Corolla, so I dont expect the new one to drive much differently.

I guess that shows just how well the hybrid synergy drive system works. Reviews have all stated they are surprised how well the HS drove.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Really? I guess you haven't seen/read the reviews for the Gen 3 Prius over in Europe. European car mags and car shows actually *like* the handling of the new Prius, so that should tell you how much of an improvement it is over the Gen 2 in terms of being fun.

I respect the mag's opinion, but I have to disagree. The 2Gen Prius, in my experience, with its tall, skinny tires, soft suspension, narrowness, and relatively high center of gravity, had classic Roly-Poly handling and slow steering response. I reviewed a 2010 3Gen Phase V model, the top-of-the-line model with the most aggressive tire/suspension combo, and the handling and steering response didn't seem much better at all. What's more, sheet metal and interior-material quality took a nose dive from the 2Gen to the 3Gen model.

Unfortunately, the new Honda Insight isn't any better overall. Its sheet metal and interior plastics are a little more solid than those of the Prius, and it handles a little better, but the back seat/headroom is basically for children, and its jerky hybrid drivetrain cannot match that of the more efficient, refined, and smoother Prius.

[Nextourer]

Originally Posted by The G Man

Maybe you are right, maybe Toyota and Lexus have finally gotten sick of hearing reviewer making fun of their handling. I know that the new RX handles a bit better, maybe the new Prius does too. Never the less, compare a Prius' handling to a Audi is pretty much a joke.
Torque means nothing in the snow if there is no traction. The Prius with those low roll resistance tires will not do very good in the snow.

Most cars with ****ty factory all season tyres won't do well in the snow. That's why winter tyres exist. Although SUV owners don't seem to realise that.

Originally Posted by The G Man

The Fusion is a bigger car than the Prius, if I want a family sedan, the Fusion would be my choice too. If I wanted a personal fun car that gets good mileage, then the A3 is a much better choice than the prius, and dont forget, the Prius is useless in the snow.

Guess I magically drove around in the 40cm of snow we got last winter.

Originally Posted by TRDFantasy

Really? I guess you haven't seen/read the reviews for the Gen 3 Prius over in Europe. European car mags and car shows actually *like* the handling of the new Prius, so that should tell you how much of an improvement it is over the Gen 2 in terms of being fun.

Don't bother. No amount of talk will convince him. I'm actually quite surprised that the Europeans like the new one.

Originally Posted by SLegacy99

I'd take a 33 MPG Fusion.

The Fusion Hybrid is Ford's best effort and I'm really impressed (esp. since it beats the TCH in fuel economy). I just wished Ford would promote it more and show that they have a viable alternative to the Camry and Prius.

[SLegacy99]

Originally Posted by Nextourer

The Fusion Hybrid is Ford's best effort and I'm really impressed (esp. since it beats the TCH in fuel economy). I just wished Ford would promote it more and show that they have a viable alternative to the Camry and Prius.

Availability is Ford's problem at the moment.

[lamar411]

I would love black on black Fusion hybrid those things look great.

[TRDFantasy]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

I respect the mag's opinion, but I have to disagree. The 2Gen Prius, in my experience, with its tall, skinny tires, soft suspension, narrowness, and relatively high center of gravity, had classic Roly-Poly handling and slow steering response. I reviewed a 2010 3Gen Phase V model, the top-of-the-line model with the most aggressive tire/suspension combo, and the handling and steering response didn't seem much better at all. What's more, sheet metal and interior-material quality took a nose dive from the 2Gen to the 3Gen model.

Unfortunately, the new Honda Insight isn't any better overall. Its sheet metal and interior plastics are a little more solid than those of the Prius, and it handles a little better, but the back seat/headroom is basically for children, and its jerky hybrid drivetrain cannot match that of the more efficient, refined, and smoother Prius.

I don't know ... most reviews from enthusiast mags say the Gen 3 Prius has a lot more fun and better handling/stability than the Gen 2 model. Looks wise the Gen 3 Prius is also more liked than the Gen 2. I've also read a lot of reviews that say interior materials quality is quite good compared to the Gen 2 as well.

I guess it's a matter of opinion ... many reviews also say the new Prius has better handling and a better interior than the Insight.

[MelF1fan]

I'd take the A3 out of the bunch but strangely enough i admit i am quite liking the looks of the new Prius. If they improved the driving dynamics then thats a very good thing along with the great mileage.

[rdgdawg]

Originally Posted by Allen K

I'm not taking anything away from the build quality of the Fusion. I recently test drove one (I-4 SEL) and it was a solidly built car. But Ford keeps pushing the "hey we get 41 MPG" and on most of these tests they're "only" getting low/mid 30s

What... a car maker embellishing mileage??????

[The G Man]

Originally Posted by Nextourer

Most cars with ****ty factory all season tyres won't do well in the snow. That's why winter tyres exist. Although SUV owners don't seem to realise that.

Guess I magically drove around in the 40cm of snow we got last winter.

40cm, that a little over a foot of snow. Even a Prius with snow tires can do that if its the right kind of snow condition. I live in New England where a ft of snow is just consider a snow flurries I have gone thru over 2 ft of snow in other cars with all season tires. We have 2 Prius where I work and we do not change over our Prius to snow tires. They basically stay grounded all winter.

[YARIS!]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

Car Type Drive mpg /EPA mpg
--- ---- --------- -------
1. 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid 49.2 /50.0
2. 2010 Honda Insight hybrid 40.5 /41.0
3. 2010 Audi A3 TDI diesel 38.2 /34.0
4. 2009 VW Jetta TDI diesel 36.2 /34.0
5. 2009 Smart ForTwo gasoline 35.3/ 36.0
6. 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid 32.9 /39.0

Interesting test numbers. They had to have driven on the hard side to get these low numbers. Typical of these testers. That explains why the two diesels feared better in relation to EPA figures.

For example, many can achieve over 60 mpg with the Prius. And remember the crew that achieved 1,445 miles on a single tank (81.5 mpg) in the Fusion (under extreme measures of course but still possible).

And I might add that I easily beat all but the Prius and Insight without trying (39 mpg driving 75 mph). Yaris! I can get 42 mpg at 65 mph. And about 46 mpg @ 55 mph. And it doesn't require premium like the Smart.

[DASHOCKER]

Out of all of those green cars, I would take the Jetta TDI.. I love the Jetta TDI Cup Race Series shown on the Speed Channel..

The cars run on B5 Biodiesel as well..

[The G Man]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

Out of all of those green cars, I would take the Jetta TDI.. I love the Jetta TDI Cup Race Series shown on the Speed Channel..

The cars run on B5 Biodiesel as well..

The Jetta TDI shows that you can have a economy car and have fun driving it too.