Buick Lacross vs. ES350 according to Edmunds

[Blackraven]

I can't comment on Buick since we don't have that brand here

Anyways

Originally Posted by love_lexus

ES350 is only an upgraded Camry.

QFT (in markets where the Asian Camry/Aurion is sold)








For our markets, the ES 350 seems redundant here (hence why locally, Lexus Manila is only selling 1 unit per month of the ES 350 as they mention that it will be least selling Lexus model in RP).

And yes for many of our local carbuyers here, the ES 350 is just a souped-up Asian Camry with a bigger price tag.

Just my two cents here

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

Glad it took Buick 20 years to catch up

Looks like Buick actually pulled ahead.

[encore888]

Finally the Buick won. As others said, it took them long enough. Not surprising as the ES is due for a refresh, and has not made many radical advances in the latest model--tried and true.

Then again, this is Edmunds, and sometimes they get the facts wrong or let bias cloud their results. In this comparo, I didn't find any glaring errors, as they have done before. That said...

...so the wood in the Buick is fake, but the Lexus is real, yet they criticize the latter?

...also it's funny, to hear backhanded praise of the ES 350's styling in other reviews, including other Edmunds ones, yet when it comes to commenting directly, they (as usual) call it 'blends in', 'could be anything' yada yada yada.

...also the 'leather is optional', sure, but have you tried finding an ES without leather? Very hard.

Edit:...also, why complain about the gated shifter now? I doubt they complained about it with the Genesis.

Edit:...and memories must be short, to claim that the ES had no competition up to now...really, when the TL, I35, and assorted Volvos, European models, American luxury makes have made competitors...problem is? They've either failed, or abandoned the soft-luxury market to the Lexus. But it's not as if the ES was in a vacuum and 'unchallenged up to now'.

I don't believe that many R&D cuts were applied here, because quite simply the ES isn't a showcase for new tech. It has always been built to a price point, and using established, proven tech from other parts of the corporate stable. It's clear that the ES 350, particularly with its more spartan interior, was built to that price point.

IMO the ES 330 would have been a better competitor in the interior styling, with the adaptive suspension; while the ES 350 is still a better performer in engine performance, accleration, fuel economy, but handling. If it had the adaptive suspension that could help.

Anyhow, glad to hear that the new LaCrosse is a well-designed vehicle, I think the ES looks better, the LaCrosse looks more generic from the side profile to me, but it has a 'larger' look. Also the refreshed 2010 ES should have additional features, making the timing of this comparison a bit easier for the Buick. Is it 'an embarrassment' for Lexus? Just like the reviewers think it is for the Cadillac SRX, Hyundai Veracruz, etc. in their comparos with the RX? I think those vehicles have worthy attributes, but the Lexus models retain their benchmark design and capabilities. Hopefully with future models they will extend their lead.

[bitkahuna]

Originally Posted by love_lexus

Only comparing cars side by side is not enough, I still think Lexus brand image is much higher than Buick, this is why ES350 outsells Buick Lacross all the time. We should thank for Lexus to bring the high end and very competitive models, LS 600HL/460L, and LX570, GS450H, without them, Lexus is just another Acura, and ES350 is only an upgraded Camry.

that's a good point. a lot of people are drawn to an ES/lexus to be pampered by the luxury dealership.

[Threxx]

I expected the 2010 LaCrosse to make the ES look silly for the money in a side by side comparison. It's actually nice to see GM do so well with this design.

The question I remain unsure of is reliability and dealer support. People want to have confidence in their car... especially the sort of people who buy THIS sort of car... they just want it to work, and on the rare occasion it does have a problem, they want it to be easy to get it fixed

Will Buick step up in dealer service standards to come closer to Cadillac/Lexus levels, or will it stay more similar to Chevrolet? If it stays then it can never be a true competitor to Lexus... it'll be more like Hyundai is now... a lower tier brand with a bargain luxury car for sale.

And then there's reliability. Buick has actually done an oustanding job in recent years with reliability ratings according to JD Power... as in right in there with Lexus... but it's easy to argue that's because they were selling mostly tried and true but very outdated models. Now with the Enclave and LaCrosse being so new... will they be able to retain that reliability? I'd be satisfied with anything better than Toyota's ratings for the first couple years while they work out the kinks... no way they'll be able to touch Lexus with this new beginning, but close is good enough for now IMO.

[Threxx]

Originally Posted by encore888

...also the 'leather is optional', sure, but have you tried finding an ES without leather? Very hard.

Sure, but the reason they mentioned it is because they quoted the ES350's base price doesn't include leather. They could have skipped the issue entirely but then they wouldn't have been able to mention the base price or they would have had to technically lie about it and quote the ES350 in the lowest trim you could typically find the car in at a dealer with a higher 'base price'. In the end it probably caused fewer headaches to just be up front with the strange fact that Lexus doesn't include leather in their base price ES350.

I almost wonder if Lexus does this so they can claim a lower base price. "Starting at 35" sounds more appealing than "starting at 38" which is what they really do start at.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Threxx

The question I remain unsure of is reliability and dealer support. People want to have confidence in their car... especially the sort of people who buy THIS sort of car... they just want it to work, and on the rare occasion it does have a problem, they want it to be easy to get it fixed
.

I think the reliability will be fine. GM/Ford cars have really long powertrain warranties.

Also, a lot of people lease Lexus and luxury cars so they don't usually have the car at the out of warranty period
anyway.

Where I work I am privy to some Ford test data...from what I have seen, their testing is all greens into the very high mileage test area....very few red's (meaning failure) and usually it is cosmetic parts that are failing at this point. I am sure General Motors can match Ford

[tromly]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

Looks like the cost cutting at Lexus/Toyota has finally caught up with them.







Wow...comments like these about a Lexus...that's harsh

You're right about those harsh comments pagemaster, but if the shoe fits ...... GM has a pile of bailout money and they are doing what needs to done to obtain market share, to include hiring some great designers!

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Threxx

I almost wonder if Lexus does this so they can claim a lower base price. "Starting at 35" sounds more appealing than "starting at 38" which is what they really do start at.

Of course they would do this.

[love_lexus]

Originally Posted by Threxx

I expected the 2010 LaCrosse to make the ES look silly for the money in a side by side comparison. It's actually nice to see GM do so well with this design.

This is highly arguable, and I also doubt it.
For example, IS350 and G370 has similar price with BMW328 (not 335), and has all features that 328 (even 335) has, and has even better interior, maybe we can say IS350 / G370 makes BMW328/335 look silly for the money in a side by side comparison, but I believe 100% BMW user disagree. Because BMW has much higher prestige in sporty class in their mind.
TBH, if we switch the badge of ES350 and Lacross, I will choose Lexus Lacross over Buick ES350, because it's a Lexus!

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by love_lexus

For example, IS350 and G370 has similar price with BMW328 (not 335), and has all features that 328 (even 335) has, and has even better interior, maybe we can say IS350 / G370 makes BMW328/335 look silly for the money in a side by side comparison, but I believe 100% !

And what does the IS or G have anything to do with this thread

We are talking about two front wheel drive cars

[1SICKLEX]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

And what does the IS or G have anything to do with this thread

We are talking about two front wheel drive cars

Leave the moderating to the moderator team. THanks

[Threxx]

Originally Posted by love_lexus

This is highly arguable, and I also doubt it.

Did you read the article? The article clearly stated the ES350 got trounced. I'm sure it's still arguable but the momentum appears to be in the LaCrosse's favor at this point according to almost any reviewer who doesn't judge a car by its badge.

Originally Posted by love_lexus

For example, IS350 and G370 has similar price with BMW328 (not 335), and has all features that 328 (even 335) has, and has even better interior, maybe we can say IS350 / G370 makes BMW328/335 look silly for the money in a side by side comparison, but I believe 100% BMW user disagree. Because BMW has much higher prestige in sporty class in their mind.
TBH, if we switch the badge of ES350 and Lacross, I will choose Lexus Lacross over Buick ES350, because it's a Lexus!

Ooooh I see what you're trying to do. You own an ES350 and are a self-admitted Lexus fanatic to the point where you judge a car by its badge (I give you props for being honest, though... too many others here won't admit it), therefore you have taken exception to my comments, so in turn you've looked at my signature and are trying to hurt my feelings using similar logic.

Well, how's this, then... I agree with you... the 328/335i are overpriced. Good thing I leased mine. My lease payment for my 335i was a solid $80/month less than the less fun to drive IS350 I looked at, despite the fact that the IS350 had a lower sticker price. If I were buying instead of leasing, I'd have gone with the IS or G, no doubt about it.

[1SICKLEX]

Originally Posted by Threxx

Did you read the article? The article clearly stated the ES350 got trounced. I'm sure it's still arguable but the momentum appears to be in the LaCrosse's favor at this point according to almost any reviewer who doesn't judge a car by its badge.



Ooooh I see what you're trying to do. You own an ES350 and are a self-admitted Lexus fanatic to the point where you judge a car by its badge (I give you props for being honest, though... too many others here won't admit it), therefore you have taken exception to my comments, so in turn you've looked at my signature and are trying to hurt my feelings using similar logic.

Well, how's this, then... I agree with you... the 328/335i are overpriced. Good thing I leased mine. My lease payment for my 335i was a solid $80/month less than the less fun to drive IS350 I looked at, despite the fact that the IS350 had a lower sticker price. If I were buying instead of leasing, I'd have gone with the IS or G, no doubt about it.

You can't jump down their throat/post when you did THE SAME THING in my thread about the Supra/335.

[shyguy16]

couldn't agree more with the review. i had one as a rental and found it uninspiring and a downgrade from the previous generation.
everytime i got in the car, the area by the nav/vents reminded me of a fish.

it's time for toyota to really do something to differentiate this from a camry.