rominl

iTrader: (4)

oh if that's what he meant then yes i completely agree. i was thinking the other way that mb is selling more coz' of mb-tex

LB Lex

I agree, when I went shopping for my first BMW back in December 07 I was surprised they didn't come with standard leather. I was under the assumption that a luxury car would have it as standard equipment.

I ended up getting my wife the 335i with pleather and it held up much better than my friend's 5 series with real leather.

I never told my wife about the pleather until after we got the X5 with real leather, she said she never noticed it was not real leather

mmarshall

Not just on those three makes. Metallics and Pearls are extra-cost (usually around $600-700) on vehicles from a number of European manufacturers (Sweedish as well as German), and also Dodge/Chrysler's gorgeous Inferno Red color.

DustinV

Not this argument again...


Seriously, some folks here are acting as if their mother were just insulted by somebody. MB-Tex has been on sale for what, since the 1960s? It has a reputation of holding up well, being easy to clean and looking high quality enough and fitting for almost any premium car. To most people that is quite appealing for many reasons. One thing I have always disliked about Lexus cars, except for their SUVs, is the lack of a "family friendly image". A Lexus sedan just doesn't strike you as the kind of premium sedan that is taken on long journeys with the family and the family dog. Cramped cabins, average to poor payload capacity and such have, in my mind, shaped Lexus sedans to be simply luxury cars but without the added benefit of being "family friendly". I think Audi and Mercedes especially have the top reputations for that in their respective classes, especially regarding the A4/C and A6/E class. And this is where bonus point for Audi-/MB-Tex comes in: durability (and ease of clean).

Some of the stuff that is said here really reeks of immaturity. "The Germans are doing this to increase profits!" Oh please. I think these car companies know their customers better than anyone on this board. They know that MB-Tex (BMW-Tex etc.) isn't an issue and that if they want leather they're prepared to pay for it. And please, the people who shop for these cars can easily pay the price for the real leather option if they wanted to. Most people here don't strike me as the typical buyers of BMW, Audi, Jaguar or Mercedes' products simply because a lot of value arguments are always brought up here. The majority of board users here always seem to focus on value - that's not a trait of European luxury brands, never has and it doesn't really hurt them: their cars sell.

Lexus customers clearly tend to look at the value aspect as I understand it (my sister certainly did) and so they expect more for less money. That isn't the case with a prospective client of a European luxury brand. Someone in the business once told me that "those people who want a BMW, want a BMW" which basically means they don't care if it comes with artificial leather or matte paint: they want a BMW. Lexus has to keep the appeal up and their reputation for value so I guess they offer real leather because it might be one of the more minor selling points of the cars (Oh look! Real leather and it is free!).


MPLexus: Who honestly cares if a Corolla comes with leather? I am wondering what the point is of offering a Corolla with those kinds of seats in the first place. Sounds like an "Only in America" thing. I can assure you that if this option were available anywhere else in the world it would be a big flop. Leather has some serious disadvantages in the long run and it doesn't matter if it is Lexus leather or something else. Wear and tear, the sun and a number of other factors will run down even the best leather in good time. Besides, leather in a Corolla? I'm shaking my head right now. It doesn't make sense to me. A Camry? Sure. A Corolla? Huh? What's next? A Yaris and iQ with leather seats?

amdave

Your post contains an undertone of elitism - one I find laughable.

I could drive to any Benz or BMW dealer tomorrow and pay cash for a 5 series or new E class. But that is besides the point. The point is that any smart consumer would find the nickel and diming by the German brands quite absurd, almost insulting. No leather or ventilated seats in a 55k E class? You don't have to value oriented to find that ridiculous.

BTW - rich people become and stay rich by seeking value, whether it be in a car, real estate, value investing, etc. You don't become wealthy overpaying for crap products. Our country would be much better off if people actually did look at the true value of the goods they buy instead of brand consciousness.

Alas, the Germans have figured out American society pretty well - they know we live in a materialistic, keep up with Jones', shallow brand conscious society - where they can get away this kind of nonsense.

mmarshall

40 years of bad marketing just compounds the same error 40 times. For instance, if I tell a police officer I've been running the same red light for 40 years and never got caught, that doesn't justify what I'm doing.

M-B Tex is FINE if they want to use it for the family kids and pets, but, then, in cars that cost what a new Mercedes does, DON'T charge extra for real leather. That is an insult now, was in the 60's, and will be 40 years from now.

(I'm not trying to be rude here, so please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not hitting on you personally, just M-B's silly marketing, like also with the extra-cost metallic paint)

CDNROCKIES

And how is this any less arrogant or douche like? Whatever big spender. From your recent posts apparently you're the next Warren Buffett so we should all listen to your financial wisdom.

Do you really think it's a deal breaker on $1500 bucks for leather versus the MBtex that some consumers actually prefer?

LexFather

Look everyone Lexus, BMW, Benz, Audi, Jaguar etc we are all fortunate to own them. No matter if its a 4 cylinder pleather E-class or a IS 250 with no sunroof.

Now you defending it again.
Seriously you are acting as if your mother was insulted by someone.

So what I did there.

Did you just write that? PWI? The RX created the luxury SUV and is the "NEW" Family friendly vehicle. What on EARTH on you talking about? How is a Lexus not family friendly? You somehow have figured over 3 million Lexus sedan owners don't take long journeys or trips? What??



If you want to continue to paint an entire forum, your stay will become a short one. How can you say say opinions reek of immaturity simply b/c you disagree with it or are somehow insulted by it. Who is really the immature one here?

Oh, please the stats show your favorites brands are LEASED, not bought.
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08...cars/index.htm
Audi A4 68%
Audi A6 74.1%
BMW 7 series 85.3%
BMW X3 67.3%
BMW 6 series 68.6%
Saab 97x 82.2%
BMW Z4 70.7%
Mercedes Benz E class 70%
LandRover Range Rover 69.6%
Jaguar XJ 65.8%


You would have a heart attack if you saw the amount of people that CHOSE a Lexus over the Germans/Jaguar BECAUSE THEY FEEL IT IS BETTER. If you look at MSRPs, Lexus has climbed and is HIGHER in many cases now. Lexus owners do like a value in getting an EQUAL or BETTER vehicle for a LESSER price. At worst you are getting a vehicle on par with the Euros. But please, continue the snobbery. Many people own/owned cars from all 3 brands. Sorry if you hate that.
You mean those that want a BMW, lease a BMW.

CDNROCKIES

Oooh..Oooh...Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter....(waving hand in the air)...lol...

The badge means f' all in the end...each brand has it's own strengths and weaknesses. No one brand has all the answers. To characterize one brand or the other is ridiculous.

No one can call me a brand ***** with our new garage.

LexFather

You are the United Nations of Car Owners...

bad co

I have had mercs all my life, 300e, c280 , 2 ML 320's(w163), 1 ML 350(w164), currently have ML 500(w164) a 72 280se garage queen and a CLK 500 so I have a high level of exprience with MB seating surfaces. I had a IS 250 and that car was great if you ignore the wind noise the poor fuel economy and the rattles and the horrible leather!! (my CLK 500 gets better highway mpg with a 302hp V8 and a antiquated 5spd auto) I kept that car for 10k miles only thats how much I hated the seats. The leather wore too fast for a 35k car the drivers side seat looked like it came out of tank, tears every where color fade it had all the problems (no rips). My ML has 55k on the clock I will post pics of how well the MB-Tex looks along with my CLK.

dunnojack

i think there's a lot of miscommunication here

Dustin is not shtting on lexus. he's stating his observations for the most part.

i wouldn't touch benz with a 10ft pole. But i still think Dustin brings up respectable points which some people seem to take offense to.

in the past, and even now, there have been so many people who have said something like:
" i can get x y z options on my lexus, and still come out $10000 cheaper than a comparably equipped german car"....... despite the fact that the germans do excel in other areas.
they were looking at both a bmw and a lexus, but decided on the lexus because it was cheaper.

so yes, lexus customers do look at the value aspect. There's no denying it.
a lot of us are guilty of it, and should not get defensive about it.


the other group of people will never buy a german car because they have a crapload of reliability problems.

I'm part of both groups. i want a bargain, and i won't touch a german car because of unreliability

LexFather

There must has been something wrong with your IS 250 b/c the rating for the CLK 500 is 23 highway and the IS 250 was 29 highway. Thats not even close.

Of course having Mercs your whole life, the sole Lexus would be crap. Not surprising.

RXSF

if there is one area where merc is behind, its fuel economy

bad co

I struggled to get 25 in the lex going 65 and I managed to get 26 in the merc at 65. A lazy low reving v8 will give you good highway mpg. I do 65mph under 2k thats not much higher than a cold start idle.