Faceoff: 2009 BMW 335d v. 2009 Lexus GS 450h
07-24-09, 10:07 AM
#1
executive matchup
Thread Starter
Faceoff: 2009 BMW 335d v. 2009 Lexus GS 450h
The diesel versus hybrid battle moves to the luxury sports sedan ring
By John LeBlanc
July 21, 2009
In the pursuit of lower fuel consumption ratings and tailpipe emissions, efficient hybrids and diesels are starting to filter into mainstream passenger cars. Even in cars that have sporty or luxurious pretensions.
Right now, though, there are only two luxury rear-wheel-drive sports sedans that also take saving fuel seriously: The new-for-2009 BMW 335d (d as in diesel) and the 2009 Lexus GS 450h (h as hybrid), which has been on sale now for a couple of years.
Yes, we know. The 3 Series is a compact sedan, and the GS a mid-sizer. But Lexus hasn't seen fit to put a diesel under the hood of its compact IS sedan. And BMW doesn't make a hybrid version of its mid-size 5 Series. Or vice versa. So until that day comes, this is as close as luxury sports sedan buyers can get to comparing fun-to-drive and frugality:
Second place: 2009 Lexus GS 450h
Because the GS 450h is one size up on the 335d, it's priced accordingly. At $63,050, the Lexus hybrid starts out $13,350 more expensive to buy than the BMW diesel.
To match these two equipment-wise, you need to add the GS 450h's lone option: a $6,600 Ultra Premium Package (Mark Levinson audio, navigation system with backup camera and more.) That brings the Lexus's final price to $69,650.
Your passenger's legs will thank you
Interestingly, a quick glance at the spec sheets of these two five-passenger sedan's show that they are closer in interior accommodations than you think.
In the end, however, the GS's longer wheelbase wins out. Front passengers in both of these luxury sedans enjoy similar room. But the GS delivers more rear shoulder and legroom.
One fast hybrid
When it comes to horsepower and torque outputs, hybrids and diesels are polar opposites. Whereas the 335d is all about torque, the Lexus is all about horsepower. At least when its batteries are fully juiced ...
Just like the Lexus brochure says, the GS 450h really does have the performance of a V8. In a straight line - when both forms of power are being called upon - the GS 450h is one fast hybrid: zero to 100 km/h takes a sports car-like 5.5 seconds, which is 0.8 seconds quicker than the 335d. But that's only when you have access to the hybrid's full 339 hp. Back-to-back acceleration runs will cause the GS 450h to revert to its 3.5-litre gas V6's gas-only ratings of 292 horsepower and 267 lb.-ft.
As a quiet and swift highway machine, the GS 450h shines. It's the type of car where hours spent behind the wheel can seem like minutes. But as soon as you hit the twisties, the Lexus loses its enthusiasm to play along.
As a sports sedan, the lack of steering feel is the GS 450h's biggest problem. And when asked to hustle - like most CVTs - its transmission constantly toggles back and forth, hunting for the right ratio. Plus, with a curb weight of 1,875 kg, the Lexus has to carry around about 140 kg of extra weight compared to the lighter BMW. Add it all up, and the GS 450h is harder to accurately place in turns than the more agile 335d.
Fast? Yes. Frugal? Let me get back to you on that …
Is the GS 450h one quick luxury sedan? In a straight line, at least, you betcha. But does its hybrid drivetrain deliver the best gas mileage of this duo? Not if you spend a lot of time in its natural highway habitat.
Yes, the hybrid GS gets about the same fuel economy as the V6 GS 350. And its city rating of 8.7 L/100 km betters - by a whisker - the 335d's 9.0 L city rating. But out of urban stop-and-go traffic (where hybrids are the least efficient) the Lexus needs 7.8 L/100 km, whereas the 335d is about 40 per cent more economical, at a rate of only 5.4 L. Throw in its premium pricing, and the Lexus ends up costing you in more ways than one.
Buy this car if ... if you like your hybrids to be fast in a straight line; need extra rear seat room; want a luxury car ride.
Don't buy this car if ... if bang-for-your-buck is a priority; need a roomy trunk; expect sports sedan handling.
First place: 2009 BMW 335d
Free of options, the BMW compact diesel sedan starts at $49,700 - obviously a clear advantage over the larger GS. But our loaded $61,400 335d tester had everything except the kitchen sink, including a $2,500 Executive Package, $2,000 Navigation Package, $2,800 Premium package, $2,000 Audiophile package and (finally) a $2,400 Sport Package (phew!)
It's safe to assume, if BMW Canada offered a diesel in its 5 Series sedan - the Lexus's true rival - the GS 450h would probably have a price advantage. Maybe.
Small car, big trunk
Being a compact sedan, room for rear occupants in the BMW is tighter than in the larger Lexus. Three in the back is a real pinch.
However, those in the GS 450h will have to pack light. Because the Lexus hybrid needs to package two powerplants (gas and electric motors), rear trunk space (where the battery pack resides) suffers. Overall, the 335d has a 40-litre advantage over the Lexus.
Sips like a diesel; drives like a 3 Series
Like every other 3 Series gas model, the rear-drive only (there's no AWD option) 335d's engine is an inline six-cylinder. And it's a doozy of a diesel.
Compared to the GS 450h, the 335d has 74 less horsepower (265 hp). Its 3.0 litres of displacement is helped by two turbochargers. The smaller one blows at low rpms, while the larger turbo forces air at higher rpms.
Unlike the gas-powered 335i, though, the diesel 3 gets a mandatory six-speed automatic you can shift for yourself with paddle shifters. Shifting, though, is quite superfluous. Prod its throttle, and the diesel's tractor-trailer-like 425 lb.-ft. of torque comes on like summer thunderstorms rolling across a Saskatchewan prairie.
So why is the BMW almost a full second slower to 100 km/h than the Lexus hybrid? Blame the autobox's Rocky Mountain-high gearing. The six gear ratios in the automatic are the same for both gas 335i and 335d, but the 335i's rear differential is 3.46:1 versus the 335d's taller 2.81:1 - hence the low highway consumption numbers.
Frugality and fun, in one luxury sports sedan
As smart European customers have learned (in some markets, 71 per cent of BMWs are diesels), there are no tangible differences between driving a diesel and a comparable gas model 3 Series. The 335d is still one of the best handing sports sedans around.
Compared to the larger, heavier Lexus, the BMW is a much more precise back road weapon. Accurate steering, stable cornering, and balanced handling - it's all there - just like in every other 3 Series. The only area it falls behind the GS 450h is in ride quality. It's decidedly not cushy.
About the only thing missing from the normal 3 Series driving experience is the symphonic shrill of a BMW gas straight-six at high revs (instead, the 335d's exhaust has more bass and less treble) and a manual transmission. And a surprise bonus: the traditional diesel clatter has been all but eliminated in the new 335d.
Buy this car if ... if you want the ride and handling of a 3 Series, but with better-than-a-hybrid fuel economy; uncompromised sized trunk space.
Don't buy this car if ... you need mid-size rear passenger room; need to win every stoplight grand prix; limo-like ride quality.
link: http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Gre...entid=20482670
my take on this: not a fair comparison, you are comparing apples to oranges.
By John LeBlanc
July 21, 2009
In the pursuit of lower fuel consumption ratings and tailpipe emissions, efficient hybrids and diesels are starting to filter into mainstream passenger cars. Even in cars that have sporty or luxurious pretensions.
Right now, though, there are only two luxury rear-wheel-drive sports sedans that also take saving fuel seriously: The new-for-2009 BMW 335d (d as in diesel) and the 2009 Lexus GS 450h (h as hybrid), which has been on sale now for a couple of years.
Yes, we know. The 3 Series is a compact sedan, and the GS a mid-sizer. But Lexus hasn't seen fit to put a diesel under the hood of its compact IS sedan. And BMW doesn't make a hybrid version of its mid-size 5 Series. Or vice versa. So until that day comes, this is as close as luxury sports sedan buyers can get to comparing fun-to-drive and frugality:
Second place: 2009 Lexus GS 450h
Because the GS 450h is one size up on the 335d, it's priced accordingly. At $63,050, the Lexus hybrid starts out $13,350 more expensive to buy than the BMW diesel.
To match these two equipment-wise, you need to add the GS 450h's lone option: a $6,600 Ultra Premium Package (Mark Levinson audio, navigation system with backup camera and more.) That brings the Lexus's final price to $69,650.
Your passenger's legs will thank you
Interestingly, a quick glance at the spec sheets of these two five-passenger sedan's show that they are closer in interior accommodations than you think.
In the end, however, the GS's longer wheelbase wins out. Front passengers in both of these luxury sedans enjoy similar room. But the GS delivers more rear shoulder and legroom.
One fast hybrid
When it comes to horsepower and torque outputs, hybrids and diesels are polar opposites. Whereas the 335d is all about torque, the Lexus is all about horsepower. At least when its batteries are fully juiced ...
Just like the Lexus brochure says, the GS 450h really does have the performance of a V8. In a straight line - when both forms of power are being called upon - the GS 450h is one fast hybrid: zero to 100 km/h takes a sports car-like 5.5 seconds, which is 0.8 seconds quicker than the 335d. But that's only when you have access to the hybrid's full 339 hp. Back-to-back acceleration runs will cause the GS 450h to revert to its 3.5-litre gas V6's gas-only ratings of 292 horsepower and 267 lb.-ft.
As a quiet and swift highway machine, the GS 450h shines. It's the type of car where hours spent behind the wheel can seem like minutes. But as soon as you hit the twisties, the Lexus loses its enthusiasm to play along.
As a sports sedan, the lack of steering feel is the GS 450h's biggest problem. And when asked to hustle - like most CVTs - its transmission constantly toggles back and forth, hunting for the right ratio. Plus, with a curb weight of 1,875 kg, the Lexus has to carry around about 140 kg of extra weight compared to the lighter BMW. Add it all up, and the GS 450h is harder to accurately place in turns than the more agile 335d.
Fast? Yes. Frugal? Let me get back to you on that …
Is the GS 450h one quick luxury sedan? In a straight line, at least, you betcha. But does its hybrid drivetrain deliver the best gas mileage of this duo? Not if you spend a lot of time in its natural highway habitat.
Yes, the hybrid GS gets about the same fuel economy as the V6 GS 350. And its city rating of 8.7 L/100 km betters - by a whisker - the 335d's 9.0 L city rating. But out of urban stop-and-go traffic (where hybrids are the least efficient) the Lexus needs 7.8 L/100 km, whereas the 335d is about 40 per cent more economical, at a rate of only 5.4 L. Throw in its premium pricing, and the Lexus ends up costing you in more ways than one.
Buy this car if ... if you like your hybrids to be fast in a straight line; need extra rear seat room; want a luxury car ride.
Don't buy this car if ... if bang-for-your-buck is a priority; need a roomy trunk; expect sports sedan handling.
First place: 2009 BMW 335d
Free of options, the BMW compact diesel sedan starts at $49,700 - obviously a clear advantage over the larger GS. But our loaded $61,400 335d tester had everything except the kitchen sink, including a $2,500 Executive Package, $2,000 Navigation Package, $2,800 Premium package, $2,000 Audiophile package and (finally) a $2,400 Sport Package (phew!)
It's safe to assume, if BMW Canada offered a diesel in its 5 Series sedan - the Lexus's true rival - the GS 450h would probably have a price advantage. Maybe.
Small car, big trunk
Being a compact sedan, room for rear occupants in the BMW is tighter than in the larger Lexus. Three in the back is a real pinch.
However, those in the GS 450h will have to pack light. Because the Lexus hybrid needs to package two powerplants (gas and electric motors), rear trunk space (where the battery pack resides) suffers. Overall, the 335d has a 40-litre advantage over the Lexus.
Sips like a diesel; drives like a 3 Series
Like every other 3 Series gas model, the rear-drive only (there's no AWD option) 335d's engine is an inline six-cylinder. And it's a doozy of a diesel.
Compared to the GS 450h, the 335d has 74 less horsepower (265 hp). Its 3.0 litres of displacement is helped by two turbochargers. The smaller one blows at low rpms, while the larger turbo forces air at higher rpms.
Unlike the gas-powered 335i, though, the diesel 3 gets a mandatory six-speed automatic you can shift for yourself with paddle shifters. Shifting, though, is quite superfluous. Prod its throttle, and the diesel's tractor-trailer-like 425 lb.-ft. of torque comes on like summer thunderstorms rolling across a Saskatchewan prairie.
So why is the BMW almost a full second slower to 100 km/h than the Lexus hybrid? Blame the autobox's Rocky Mountain-high gearing. The six gear ratios in the automatic are the same for both gas 335i and 335d, but the 335i's rear differential is 3.46:1 versus the 335d's taller 2.81:1 - hence the low highway consumption numbers.
Frugality and fun, in one luxury sports sedan
As smart European customers have learned (in some markets, 71 per cent of BMWs are diesels), there are no tangible differences between driving a diesel and a comparable gas model 3 Series. The 335d is still one of the best handing sports sedans around.
Compared to the larger, heavier Lexus, the BMW is a much more precise back road weapon. Accurate steering, stable cornering, and balanced handling - it's all there - just like in every other 3 Series. The only area it falls behind the GS 450h is in ride quality. It's decidedly not cushy.
About the only thing missing from the normal 3 Series driving experience is the symphonic shrill of a BMW gas straight-six at high revs (instead, the 335d's exhaust has more bass and less treble) and a manual transmission. And a surprise bonus: the traditional diesel clatter has been all but eliminated in the new 335d.
Buy this car if ... if you want the ride and handling of a 3 Series, but with better-than-a-hybrid fuel economy; uncompromised sized trunk space.
Don't buy this car if ... you need mid-size rear passenger room; need to win every stoplight grand prix; limo-like ride quality.
link: http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Gre...entid=20482670
my take on this: not a fair comparison, you are comparing apples to oranges.
07-24-09, 11:16 AM
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That certainly makes it more worthwhile.
I must say I am disspointed by the GSh and Lexus. It came out in '07 and its not particularily more efficient (on paper) than the 460, nor is it all that much more powerful. The sales of it suck. Lexus really needs to do some updating here. Or offer say a GS350h - 370h to entice hybrid buyers.
I must say I am disspointed by the GSh and Lexus. It came out in '07 and its not particularily more efficient (on paper) than the 460, nor is it all that much more powerful. The sales of it suck. Lexus really needs to do some updating here. Or offer say a GS350h - 370h to entice hybrid buyers.
07-24-09, 11:17 AM
#6
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Posts: n/a
Good article! Steering feel can be odd, sometimes it does feel loose and sometimes it feels perfect. I've never had issues with the CVT hunting anything, IMO, it reads my mind where I want it to be and IMO its more fun as a tranny than the e-shift in the old 400 (But I miss paddle shifters). I agree the h does not like stop and go traffic, it hurts MPG.
Overall not sure how a winner was picked as they admit they are not close to being competitors but I enjoyed the article and I also give props to the 335d!
The 450h is a limited production vehicle, its not for high sales. Also I just posted a link where BMW is offering $4500 on their diesels to help push sales.
The 450h is the first of its kind. Now the S class has a RWD hybrid and Nissan will offer a Fuga/M37 hybrid. It is ahead of its time and a great learning experience for Lexus.
Overall not sure how a winner was picked as they admit they are not close to being competitors but I enjoyed the article and I also give props to the 335d!
That certainly makes it more worthwhile.
I must say I am disspointed by the GSh and Lexus. It came out in '07 and its not particularily more efficient (on paper) than the 460, nor is it all that much more powerful. The sales of it suck. Lexus really needs to do some updating here. Or offer say a GS350h - 370h to entice hybrid buyers.
I must say I am disspointed by the GSh and Lexus. It came out in '07 and its not particularily more efficient (on paper) than the 460, nor is it all that much more powerful. The sales of it suck. Lexus really needs to do some updating here. Or offer say a GS350h - 370h to entice hybrid buyers.
The 450h is the first of its kind. Now the S class has a RWD hybrid and Nissan will offer a Fuga/M37 hybrid. It is ahead of its time and a great learning experience for Lexus.
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07-24-09, 11:28 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
I also agree that this is a good article and seems quite fair considering how different the vehicles are.
07-24-09, 11:54 AM
#12
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That certainly makes it more worthwhile.
I must say I am disspointed by the GSh and Lexus. It came out in '07 and its not particularily more efficient (on paper) than the 460, nor is it all that much more powerful. The sales of it suck. Lexus really needs to do some updating here. Or offer say a GS350h - 370h to entice hybrid buyers.
I must say I am disspointed by the GSh and Lexus. It came out in '07 and its not particularily more efficient (on paper) than the 460, nor is it all that much more powerful. The sales of it suck. Lexus really needs to do some updating here. Or offer say a GS350h - 370h to entice hybrid buyers.
Guys keep in mind this pricing is all in Canadian dollars. Our cars are typically significantly more expensive than you guys get. There is zero chance you would find a "slightly" used M3 in that price range up here. A new M3 is $85K here.
I also agree that this is a good article and seems quite fair considering how different the vehicles are.
I also agree that this is a good article and seems quite fair considering how different the vehicles are.
SF, got a link?
07-24-09, 11:56 AM
#13
executive matchup
Thread Starter
07-24-09, 11:58 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
It will be interesting to see how this technology is brought along however. All of the manufacturers are using similar systems, but according to our MB sales guy there is some controversy over patents that may change the game in the near future.
07-24-09, 12:00 PM
#15
Guest
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Yes, the 335d utilizes the AdBlue.
It will be interesting to see how this technology is brought along however. All of the manufacturers are using similar systems, but according to our MB sales guy there is some controversy over patents that may change the game in the near future.
It will be interesting to see how this technology is brought along however. All of the manufacturers are using similar systems, but according to our MB sales guy there is some controversy over patents that may change the game in the near future.
Hows the ML?