Hyundai:The New Lexus Competitor
07-10-09, 11:35 AM
#61
Lexus Test Driver
Gojirra99
Surely you are not comparing a quarter million dollar Ferrari Enzo to a $100000 Lexus
You guys up North pay more for for all brands of cars, I guess its due to the smaller market.
Surely you are not comparing a quarter million dollar Ferrari Enzo to a $100000 Lexus
You guys up North pay more for for all brands of cars, I guess its due to the smaller market.
07-10-09, 05:48 PM
#62
Super Moderator
The point still stands that they do make limited production cars regardless of the price with firm production limits, they refused to add even one single unit of 600hL production after they have filled out the 150 units/year Canadian allocation, which disproves your assertion that they will just build more and sell as many as they can to make more money if they have more orders than their pre-determined production limit.
Last edited by Gojirra99; 07-13-09 at 09:45 AM.
07-13-09, 09:40 AM
#63
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Looked at Genesis
I have had LS's and GS's since '95, and I put 200,000 miles on all of them. My wife has an '05 RX. I was going to trade my 2000 LS (195,000) and get the new loaded 4.6 Genesis. I took one home for a test drive, and hated the ride. Also, it looked a little cheap inside. But the biggest reason that I didn't get it was that the Hyundai dealer is also the Ford dealer. I knew that when I needed service, the shop was likely to have a Ford mindset or lower end Hyundai mindset. Also. I felt that I probably not be happy in anything other than another Lexus. I ended up with an '07 LS460 with 19,000 miles, and am glad I chose the Lexus.
07-13-09, 11:14 AM
#64
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I have had LS's and GS's since '95, and I put 200,000 miles on all of them. My wife has an '05 RX. I was going to trade my 2000 LS (195,000) and get the new loaded 4.6 Genesis. I took one home for a test drive, and hated the ride. Also, it looked a little cheap inside. But the biggest reason that I didn't get it was that the Hyundai dealer is also the Ford dealer. I knew that when I needed service, the shop was likely to have a Ford mindset or lower end Hyundai mindset. Also. I felt that I probably not be happy in anything other than another Lexus. I ended up with an '07 LS460 with 19,000 miles, and am glad I chose the Lexus.
07-13-09, 04:12 PM
#67
Steve
07-13-09, 07:23 PM
#69
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I don't think its tacky either, I think its done well. I do prefer my GS interior though. The optional leather dash is nice but I wonder how it will hold up over time. This is their first luxury car.
07-17-09, 11:09 AM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
However, not all interior plastic is cheap or flimsy. The new Subaru Impreza and Forester, for example, are almost all interior plastic, except for the padded door armrests, but it is a thick, solid, durable plastic. Some Dodge/Chrysler and Mitsubishi interior plastics, on the other hand, are flimsy junk.
07-21-09, 10:31 PM
#72
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All this talk of how it looks and good the interior looks ect, but what about where a serious amount of money is spent in regards to safety. In my eyes the low cost of these cars has to have a place where the hyundai is skimping on and that would have to be the safety element. Ask yourself, what tires do these cars come out with, what is the quality of the steering and brake components and how do they fair in crash testing ect, ect. They still have a long way to go before you can start comparing the two brands IMO.
Hyundai is known for making many safety equipment standard (such as ESC) unlike most other mainstream manufacturers.
The higher trim Genesis coupe has Brembo brakes, the steering is said to have a BMW feel and has LSD (which the G37 does not).
As for crash tests - pretty much all the newer Hyundai/Kia models are at/near the top (for instance, the Kia Soul bests the Honda Fit on the NCAP crash test).
The other hot topic is copying other car manufacturer's design and the fact that there are only many design that is original. I can say that there is a big difference in a direct copy than two companies who are going in the same direction design wise. There is nothing original in that Hyundai, everything is a copy. It’s almost like buying a pair of knock off designer jeans or a fake Rolex. Almost every luxury car in this price range have something original about it, BMW's Halo lights, Audi's LED or oversize grill, Lexus logo or MB's front grill.
Audi's oversized grille is just Audi's take of Chrysler's oversized grille (and Mitsu, w/ the Lancer, just took Audi's grille and inverted it).
As for the MB grille, just add a divider down the middle and many Lexus, Infiniti and Acura models' grilles would look like the MB grille.
For the most part, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura models have had either vertically slatted grilles or horizonatally slatted grilles (ooh, how original!) in order to make their models fit the "lux" mold (only recently have they begun to split from that, most notably Acura).
One can easily say the models w/ vertically slatted grilles for Lexus and Infiniti copied the look of Buick/Jag grilles.
And while the grille for the Genesis has the divider down the middle, one can't say that the grille is the same since MB doesn't have the waterfall/Klingon effect.
LS430 = S Class
2nd Gen GS = E Class w/ Buick/Jag grille
As for the Genesis, Hyundai knew the design was derivative, but they did it on purpose, since entry/acceptance into the lux market is predicated on looking like a luxury vehicle (i.e. - like other vehicles in its class).
Only recently have Lexus, Infiniti and Acura felt the freedom to stray from their earlier conservative designs.
As for the L-Finesse (at least w/ regard to the LS), I'd argue that it hasn't yet shown originality - the LS went from a S Class clone (LS430) to a toned down version of the Bangle 7 Series (which is why the toned down new 7 looks eerily similar to the LS from the side and rear).
As a designer, I agree that there are only so many designs given the constraints of engineering. However, I disagree that the end result is copycats. There is a difference between being inspired by a trend or scheme, and copying a design. It's a fine line, but it's definitely there.
Here is my "subjective" idea of what constitutes as inspiration vs. copying:
This is copycat (Taillights + Exhaust tips):
Here is my "subjective" idea of what constitutes as inspiration vs. copying:
This is copycat (Taillights + Exhaust tips):
And there are some taillight shapes/designs that have been used on many more manufacturers - such as the one that has been used on a previous gen Camry and many other makes (the Civic's taillight shape is eerily similar to that of the A4 and even Ian Callum's new Jag's taillights/trunk design, unfortunately, looks like a mash of the Hyundai XG350 and the Kia Amanti).
As for the exhaust tips, it has already been established that the LS wasn't the 1st.
Last edited by YEH; 07-21-09 at 10:42 PM.
07-21-09, 10:54 PM
#73
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My first Lexus was a pre-owned 93 LS400. I traded it when it had over 90K miles and without a single problem during my ownership. A new Hyundai Genesis 4.6 is over $40K. I would get a pre-owned low mileage LS430 instead of a new Hyundai. In addition, Hyundai is still no Lexus.
Lexus in Japan until recently was "just a Toyota" and the top of the line Toyota/Lexus is still a Toyota, the Century (even the Crown Majesta was considered "higher" than the Celsior, aka the LS).
I guess Mercedes must heading for a period of copying (aside from the new E Class) since they hired Joel Piaskowski, Hyundai's former head of its Cali design center.
Really, this is such a silly claim.
Anyway, Hyundai really isn't a Lexus competitor until it establishes a separate luxury make for the US market.
As it is, Hyundai is very much like what Toyota is in Japan, a full-line auto manufacturer/brand.
I would hold off arguing about prices until the car actually goes on sale. There were rumors that Genesis would cost under 30k with v8 fully loaded. That isnt the case now, is it?
The under $30k set price was for a particular trim of the Genesis sedan, the trim w/ the 3.3L V6 engine which is available in SKorea; Hyundai prudently decided, ultimately, not to bring that variant to the US.
And yes - Lexus did emulate Mercedes w/ the LS430 (w/ the greenhouse/C-pillar and rear).
Last edited by YEH; 07-21-09 at 11:07 PM.
07-22-09, 07:36 AM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
I agree with rominl, Genesis' steering feels more like a Lincoln MKS. It lacks feedback and responsiveness. And to the poster above with the picture of a black Genssis park next to the black MB e-class in the driveway, your neighbors must get a good laugh from Hyundai commerical in your driveway