Johnny

All debate aside; bring it on, I'd buy one...

Threxx

Well we still don't know much about the Equus including how it drives or what it will be priced at, but I can personally attest to the Genesis being an extremely impressive value, as I've gone on two test drives and really thought about getting one to replace my 335i. I ended up getting an Aura instead due to the ridiculous incentives GM was offering me on it, but that's another story.

The one reason I decided not to go with the Genesis was that the dealer seemed like a ghost town and seemed to treat the Genesis as a foreign object... something they'd be happy to sell you but really had no idea what to do for you from there. Hyundai needs to heavily revamp their dealer network and service standards... at least in my area. Especially if they intend to sell the Equus.

dunnojack

hyundai still has no originality. and that Equine looks ugly.

they're basically saying..... if you want a sprinkle of lexus, audi, bmw, mercedes.... all in one car, buy ours.

they got MMI, I drive, komand, all rolled into one.

primecut

iTrader: (1)

The truth is somewhere in between. Try making a sketch of your car without any references. Now try again while looking at a picture of your car. Much easier right? You still have to put in the work to make the sketch, but it's much quicker and far more accurate.

A lot of times, coming up with the fresh ideas that actually integrate well with engineering is the hardest part. By taking ideas from other companies, Hyundai knows that those elements are tried and true, and will work properly. That saves tons of money, which is why they can undercut other car companies.

Say what you will about how much/little Hyundai copies other cars, but when someone can point out specific parts of a car and say "Oh this taillight is from this car, and this console is from another car", then it's definitely problematic.

There is indeed a fine line between imitation and inspiration, and the judgment is obviously subjective. Personally I'm hesitant to support a company that is more imitation than inspiration at this point.

LexFather

But everyone copies!!! Every car maker from Japanese to German to Italian to Sweedish copies!

THESE DESIGNERS GO TO THE SAME SCHOOLS!!! Think about that.

Its RARE for something to come totally new or fresh or that breaks the mold. What we have seen of late (IMO) are uglier and uglier cars, SUVs, etc. To Hyundai's credit while they are taking forms from different companies they are actually pulling it off well. Its quite amazing to think they are taking 3 or 4 different designs and blending it well.

In the Equus at least it does look and have the proportions of a luxury vehicle. I don't mean to pick on the RL but that is Honda/Acura's flagship vehicle and it looks like an Accord, period. Giant front overhang and no luxurious proportions. The Equus and Genesis follow a very nice RWD short overhang look. So I would much rather a luxurious looking copyish Hyundai than an Accord looking luxury badged car. The 3GS is no trend setter either, that goes to the 2GS. It at least keeps luxurious proportions and details so when you see it you think "hey thats nice, is that a Lexus"?

Jaguar just released their new XJ. It doesn't look like anything else in class but like Hyundai, you can see other styling elements in it.

FKL

Sorry but Audi has been doing this for decades. The Japanese have just started.

This is a cop out, perhaps an attempt to shield the Japanese automakers from the obvious fact that they lacked design inspiration and fluid language for decades (where Hyundai is today). It's all too easy to write off a blatant copy with the line, "so what, everyone does it", but that's both illogical and untrue. The reality is the Japanese were styling bland and tasteless designs during the last two decades. It wasn't until L-Finesse that Lexus finally broke the Toyota connection of boring, vanilla, unoriginality.

LexFather

I think we know that Japanese style was never a super strong suit. On the other hand the media and the "Status quo" are unwilling to give them credit when due. SC 300/400 anyone? Nothing was shaped like that in 1992. The NSX looks timeless today. The LS might have copied the Germans but didn't look like a cheap Nissan sentra like the E-class or 5 series did with EXPOSED rubber bumpers.

Lets see here, with Lexus we had a bunch of different looking cars with the same emblem selling like hotcakes. We had the Germans making their vehicles all look the same but they were different sizes.

The Germans took a page from Lexus and now all their vehicles look different instead of the one box, 3 different size mentality.

BMWs now have huge Accordish overhangs, Ford "New Edge" features. Benz took SUV features with its fender flares.

Audi still insists on making all their sedans look identical the last 20 years. The R8 and TT are their different looking cars. Audi has never been known for great exterior design in the industry outside the TT. Tasteful but not "wow".

Please, get the wool out your eyes.

mmarshall

I'm with 1SICKLEX on this one..........and we have discussed this issue in other threads. If you are going to design and style a body or four wheels, there are only so many practical shapes that you can come up with before you end up copying SOMEONE else, somewhere. Even Webster's Dictionary, for example, has a finite number of words in it. And, since the auto industry as we know it is some 120 years old, dating back to the 1890's, there's not a whole lot of new possible body styles left if you want to still make something practical for carrying several people around.

mmarshall

1SICKLEX is correct with this one....I don't see it as a cop-out. Besides, what's under automotive skin is often far more important than the skin itself.


I wouldn't use Audi as an example. Granted, they can do some nice interiors, but their oversize grilles, IMO, are as ugly as Acura's new ones. Both companies, IMO, should have left the old ones on.

Would you consider this a tasteless, bland design? This is the Lexus SC400 from the late 90's. In my book, it is a beautiful car.....and, yes, Japanese.

Faraaz23

While Audi has been in the business for decades, I don't really think they had a solid direction on design theme until the A4 came out in 1996 or so. I don't argue they have some history in the way of neat cars before that, like the Audi Quattro back in the 1980's and the Audi version of the original VW golf even before that. From a technical standpoint, the Audi Quattro laid the ground work for the company, but stylistically the A4 defined the new image of Audi and their future.

I think what 1sick was getting at though, is that the Audi as we know it today started with the A4 and the soon following A6, A8, and TT. That was the point where Audi really walked out on to the stage and said this is who we are, and where our future is going.

The next 5-7 years will be vital for Hyundai to see how they approach it. Sooner or later, they need to find a unique niche besides "cheaper than the others"

mmarshall

But, with the Quattro, they didn't need a style or design theme. People bought Quattros for their traction and handling, not for the body styles or interiors. Of course, Audi went on to eventually do some of the best interiors in the buisness.


Even today, though, some people still consider Audis to be rebadged VWs. You and I know, of course, that is usually not the case (though they share some drivetrains). So, true or not, it shows that the so-called Audi "direction" has not been entirely successful.

Hyundai is not a niche, per se.......nor does it need one. They have become (as I understand it) the sixth-largest automanufacturer in the world (perhaps fifth now, with GM's bankrupcy), combining value, quality, nice interiors (except for the Genesis coupe), and a fairly wide range of vehicles. I, personally, also like the fact that a number of Hyundai products still have some ride comfort and (again, with the exeption of the Genesis Coupe), have not given in to the stiff-suspension/low-profile tire craze that has gripped so many manufacturers today.

primecut

iTrader: (1)

As a designer, I agree that there are only so many designs given the constraints of engineering. However, I disagree that the end result is copycats. There is a difference between being inspired by a trend or scheme, and copying a design. It's a fine line, but it's definitely there.

Here is my "subjective" idea of what constitutes as inspiration vs. copying:

This is inspiration (Bangle butt):






This is copycat (Taillights + Exhaust tips):

Trexus

Hyundai is actually the 11th largest auto manufacturer in the whole entire world.

1. Toyota Motor
2. Volkswagen
3. General Motors
4. Ford Motor
5. Diamler
6. Honda Motor
7. Fiat
8. Nissan Motor
9. Peugeot
10. BMW
11. Hyundai Motor

mmarshall

Depends on which list you're looking at. Some show Hyundai 6th, some 8th, and this one 11th. Most of the ones I've seen show them sixth, if you include Kia with them, which is now Hyundai-owned.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

deja vu. rewind 20 years.