The e46 M3 thread

[Stokdgs]

kt22cliff - ref - Some incorrect informations.....

The owners manuals for the E46 M3 stated anything from 4.5 to 5.5 liters, and in the real world of M3 owners, they were seeing up to 6 liters put in the car at oil change to get the level up on the dipstick.
I was thinking that if the car took the 6, you had the 7th liter for back up on trips.
Back in '02 when I had my new M-Coupe, the oil was $19.00/liter, notice I said it "used" to cost that much back then..
There are M3's out there that have been meticulously taken care of by the book and better by many people such as myself and others, that would be able to tell you everything they did and the vehicle would show it. Mine was taken care of like this, and didnt use, burn, or leak any fluids ever. When I sold it 3 years later, the people that drove it back through Montana sent me a picture of the speedometer south of 170 mph and they were not flooring it. So much for the 155mph speed governor..
We all know that the M3 has the M sport package already..

The '06 M3 will have the Competition Package option, and most of these cars were painted Interlagos Blue, and had an Alcantara steering wheel, really nice 19" wheels, and a faster steering rack.

There was also an Audio option in M3's that included 12 upgraded vs 10 speakers, 2 Subs, upgraded amplifier and speed sensitive sound equalization.

I remembered something else - the driver's seat side bolsters are rather large, so sometimes if you are not careful, there is a tendancy to rub the outside edge of it getting in and out of the vehicle, and if not careful, it will wear a little there.. Newer, low mileage examples should show less wear there hopefully..

Oh, and of course I had to stop for gas, it was 1400 miles!! Took 16 hours; will let you figure out the avg mph.. Oh, how I love driving through California!!

Good luck with your search !!!
DanF

[kt22cliff]

So we are back to Bill Clinton standard of splitting what the meaning of the word "is" is?? Why would you or anyone care what that oil cost in 2002? And I know personally castrol TWS 10W60 oil did cost same $10-$11 at BMW stealers on May of 2003 and forward so I would stay away from wherever/whoever was/is charging you $19 for 10W60.

If you read the real E46 M3 manual it will say the oil capacity is 5.8qts or 5.5 liters, not "anything from 4.5 to 5.5 liters". Unless you are burning through your oil - which is not good, you should never need that 7th bottle. Of all the oil changes I've done personally on my car, never have I had to use more than 5.75 liters with me pre-saturating filters. I've run many autox's and DE/track days and mine does not burn a drop between oil changes.

As for your 155mph speed governor and people running 170 on speedometer, first off, speedometer has built-in margin so 170 indicated is not really 170. Second, on E46 M3, and I'm guessing M-coupe is the same way, the speed governor only kicks in on 6th gear, so it's "possible" to run just about 170 on 5th gear at 8000rpm. Of course you could have the governor deleted.

ZCP (competition package) were available on 2005 and 2006 models. Although it would've been technically possible to have Interlagos Blue on non-ZCP M3 thru individual program, you can assume pretty much all Interlagos Blue are ZCP M3. But there are plenty of ZCP M3's that are NOT Interlagos Blue. And to complicate the matters, it was possible to order ZCP option with regular 19" wheels so not all ZCP optioned cars came with ZCP 19" wheels. And of the components of the ZCP package, the brakes and specially ZCP 19" wheels are popular mods. So you will see lots of non-ZCP M3 with ZCP wheels or even replica ZCP wheels.

Originally Posted by Stokdgs

kt22cliff - ref - Some incorrect informations.....

The owners manuals for the E46 M3 stated anything from 4.5 to 5.5 liters, and in the real world of M3 owners, they were seeing up to 6 liters put in the car at oil change to get the level up on the dipstick.
I was thinking that if the car took the 6, you had the 7th liter for back up on trips.
Back in '02 when I had my new M-Coupe, the oil was $19.00/liter, notice I said it "used" to cost that much back then..
There are M3's out there that have been meticulously taken care of by the book and better by many people such as myself and others, that would be able to tell you everything they did and the vehicle would show it. Mine was taken care of like this, and didnt use, burn, or leak any fluids ever. When I sold it 3 years later, the people that drove it back through Montana sent me a picture of the speedometer south of 170 mph and they were not flooring it. So much for the 155mph speed governor..
We all know that the M3 has the M sport package already..

The '06 M3 will have the Competition Package option, and most of these cars were painted Interlagos Blue, and had an Alcantara steering wheel, really nice 19" wheels, and a faster steering rack.

There was also an Audio option in M3's that included 12 upgraded vs 10 speakers, 2 Subs, upgraded amplifier and speed sensitive sound equalization.

I remembered something else - the driver's seat side bolsters are rather large, so sometimes if you are not careful, there is a tendancy to rub the outside edge of it getting in and out of the vehicle, and if not careful, it will wear a little there.. Newer, low mileage examples should show less wear there hopefully..

Oh, and of course I had to stop for gas, it was 1400 miles!! Took 16 hours; will let you figure out the avg mph.. Oh, how I love driving through California!!

Good luck with your search !!!
DanF

Originally Posted by 92 SC400

The rob bearing issues were supposedly fixed starting with the '03.5 production dates.

For subframe issues, check out e46fanatics and there is a long thread about it with pics as well. It's something you'd have to either get under the car to see or take everything out of the trunk to see the welds depending on severity. As mentioned here are after-market kits to fix/avoid this issue. People in that e46fanatics have even had luck with BMW NA paying for repairs...

For whatever reason though, I recall more people with later model year cars having VANOS failures.

Competition package started in 2004 MY IIRC. Interlagos Blue was not available on anything except for ZCP (competition package) optioned M3s though I am not sure that most ZCP cars were painted this color or not; this is the first I've read of this.

The S54 engine seems to consume oil, so having an extra quart or two would probably not be a bad idea!

[92 SC400]

Originally Posted by kt22cliff

ZCP (competition package) were available on 2005 and 2006 models. Although it would've been technically possible to have Interlagos Blue on non-ZCP M3 thru individual program, you can assume pretty much all Interlagos Blue are ZCP M3. But there are plenty of ZCP M3's that are NOT Interlagos Blue. And to complicate the matters, it was possible to order ZCP option with regular 19" wheels so not all ZCP optioned cars came with ZCP 19" wheels. And of the components of the ZCP package, the brakes and specially ZCP 19" wheels are popular mods. So you will see lots of non-ZCP M3 with ZCP wheels or even replica ZCP wheels.

Yeah, I also heard from a dealer at the time that you could get the ZCP w/o the ZCP 19" wheels but then you paid for the ZCP (including the wheels), plus the price of the standard 19" wheels! I think there was a member on a Bimmer site selling one like that and people were almost reluctant to believe it was actually a ZCP car or that wheels were swapped at some point.

[Stokdgs]

I went to the BMWCCA.org website Classifieds and found alot of M cars for sale, about 132 of them; the listings started at Jan 2nd, '09 to today's date.

The most interesting E46 M3 was this one on Page-3 of the Classified M cars:
Cars for Sale » M Series for sale
Year: 2005
Model: M3
VINnumber: WBSBL93475PN63654
Exterior Color: Interlagos blue metallic
Interior Color and Material: black Nappa leather
Mileage 1.4k
Transmission 6-speed
Description: competition & premium pkgs, no mods, power lumbar seats, power rear sunshade, xenon lights, H/K sound, original mats in trunk, in heated garage, covered, on trickle charger, zymöled & lexoled, four oil changes, Red Line trans & rear, like new, ordered under U.S. Diplomatic Sales Munich (build paper & MSO).
Asking Price 50000
Best Offer or Firm: Best Offer
Contact Name: Victor
Home Phone: 011 499662415988
Work Phone
Cell Phone 011 491626911384
Email Victor
State/Province: (NC) North Carolina
Keywords: 2005 M3

Good luck !
DanF

[ViniZaoD]

I was considering getting one over the IS350 a few months ago but the IS won because of better practicality. My neighbor's dad had one. Got it new in 04 and sold it half a year ago. His tranny imploded twice, once at 60K miles and again at 85K. Both times the fix cost almost $10K. I'd be careful when buying one. Just because you buy it for 20K doesn't mean it will be cheap. You're still paying maintenance on a high strung top of the line German performance sedan.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by Faymester

Note: I would like to keep this keep this on specifically the e46 m3 because I'm not really considering some of the other closer substitutes.

Do those off-limits "substitutes" include the 335i? I've long maintained, for several reasons, after reviewing both cars, that the 335i was a substantially better value per dollar, at least for normal street use.

[Faymester]

Thigh bolster! hells yes I need that (no, not want, need, lol). How common were the fully adjustable power seats? Anyone know?

I've got the Harman Kardon in my Rover and it's not too bad (I can def tell it's not the greatest though, so Bimmer will likely get upgraded sound down the road provided I love the car as much as I hope I will).

I haven't looked in the states, but I was thinking about it today and since I'm considering expanding my emplyment search (graduation from university in Aug) to include Seattle, I was thinking if I'm down there I think I'd rather have a US spec M3. If I find one down there I have to import it and change a couple things to meet Canadian safety recs so it's only worth doing if I'm moving down there. (+ I can have full tint, can't have that up here)

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Do those off-limits "substitutes" include the 335i? I've long maintained, for several reasons, after reviewing both cars, that the 335i was a substantially better value per dollar, at least for normal street use.

That was something else I've driven yes, and even though I know that it is a better value/$, I really want the M & I am considering tracking with the car as well. Whether or not I actually do = who knows, but I'm thinking about it.

Competition pkg: harder to find on 04 or 05? or was it an 06 only?

I did have a brows through a couple of the Bimmer forums but I trust CL, hence why I made a thread about it on here I'll pick a Bimmer forum once I've got the car; but when you're in the process of finding the car, a more unbiased opinion is usually better (or at least an opinion coming from people you somewhat know).

Does anyone know if the 04+ engines were as prone to issues as the pre 03.5 ones?

Also, I've seen a few mentions of sub-frame issues. (warning! I am now going to sound completely ignorant) What do you guys mean? I'm not even sure I know what the sub-frame is.

[92 SC400]

Originally Posted by Faymester

Thigh bolster! hells yes I need that (no, not want, need, lol). How common were the fully adjustable power seats? Anyone know?

I've got the Harman Kardon in my Rover and it's not too bad (I can def tell it's not the greatest though, so Bimmer will likely get upgraded sound down the road provided I love the car as much as I hope I will).

I haven't looked in the states, but I was thinking about it today and since I'm considering expanding my emplyment search (graduation from university in Aug) to include Seattle, I was thinking if I'm down there I think I'd rather have a US spec M3. If I find one down there I have to import it and change a couple things to meet Canadian safety recs so it's only worth doing if I'm moving down there. (+ I can have full tint, can't have that up here)



That was something else I've driven yes, and even though I know that it is a better value/$, I really want the M & I am considering tracking with the car as well. Whether or not I actually do = who knows, but I'm thinking about it.

Competition pkg: harder to find on 04 or 05? or was it an 06 only?

I did have a brows through a couple of the Bimmer forums but I trust CL, hence why I made a thread about it on here I'll pick a Bimmer forum once I've got the car; but when you're in the process of finding the car, a more unbiased opinion is usually better (or at least an opinion coming from people you somewhat know).

Does anyone know if the 04+ engines were as prone to issues as the pre 03.5 ones?

Also, I've seen a few mentions of sub-frame issues. (warning! I am now going to sound completely ignorant) What do you guys mean? I'm not even sure I know what the sub-frame is.

The rob bearing issues were supposedly fixed starting with the '03.5 production dates.

For subframe issues, check out e46fanatics and there is a long thread about it with pics as well. It's something you'd have to either get under the car to see or take everything out of the trunk to see the welds depending on severity. As mentioned here are after-market kits to fix/avoid this issue. People in that e46fanatics have even had luck with BMW NA paying for repairs...

For whatever reason though, I recall more people with later model year cars having VANOS failures.

Competition package started in 2004 MY IIRC. Interlagos Blue was not available on anything except for ZCP (competition package) optioned M3s though I am not sure that most ZCP cars were painted this color or not; this is the first I've read of this.

The S54 engine seems to consume oil, so having an extra quart or two would probably not be a bad idea!

[Faymester]

Oh also, I'm coming from the IS300, yes mine is an auto so it's not a direct comparo I know, but I'm not going to just get a newer IS300 (though it was considered some months ago)

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the IS300 and all the fun I've had with it (great awesome car) but a few main issues are starting to really ware on me; mainly the cockpit doesn't quite fit me - little small, I've got everything adjusted to the max and want for a bit more room. Also, yes, IS300 is a little slow for me now (even with my mystery chip - FYI, we determined it's probably a Supra chip but that's a different story)

[Stokdgs]

Sounds like you are progressing fine with your search !
Believe that all of the M3's have power adjustable seats with 3 setting memory system for driver seat, safety belt height, and outside mirrors, standard. An optional 4-way power lumbar support for front seats was offered as well.
Now if you are looking perhaps at an E39 M5, well those bad boys have something like 16-way power sport seats !! But then we digress....
The rear subframe under the trunklid in some E-46's but more in the Z3-M cars, had some subframe problems. Not all, just a few, and there is a factory fix or a better probably cheaper fix from Ireland Engineering.. It involves welding, etc in the back subframe of the car.. I dont know of any E46 M3's that I have personally seen with this problem..
From what I have read from my original factory BMW M3 brochures I collected over the years, it looks like the Competition Package started the last year, 2006, of the E46 model.. I need to check further, and talk to some of my friends on the Roadfly.com site.. Will advise..
If you decide to come down to Seattle, well you are not that far anyway, so come on down ! I know the Seattle BMWCCA club is pretty good and they would also be glad to help you out. I will look over their site tomorrow and see if anyone has an M3 out there for sale.. Will look at the Roundel Magazine on line and go back a few months of issues I have at home too..
One thing about the Bimmer club members, we are all very helpful, and go out of our way to assist whenever we can.. They also publish one of the best car club magazines ever.. No I dont work for them, I just have been a member for about 9 years now..

Good luck !
DanF

[DASHOCKER]

Originally Posted by Stokdgs

Sounds like you are progressing fine with your search !
Believe that all of the M3's have power adjustable seats with 3 setting memory system for driver seat, safety belt height, and outside mirrors, standard. An optional 4-way power lumbar support for front seats was offered as well.
Now if you are looking perhaps at an E39 M5, well those bad boys have something like 16-way power sport seats !! But then we digress....
The rear subframe under the trunklid in some E-46's but more in the Z3-M cars, had some subframe problems. Not all, just a few, and there is a factory fix or a better probably cheaper fix from Ireland Engineering.. It involves welding, etc in the back subframe of the car.. I dont know of any E46 M3's that I have personally seen with this problem..
From what I have read from my original factory BMW M3 brochures I collected over the years, it looks like the Competition Package started the last year, 2006, of the E46 model.. I need to check further, and talk to some of my friends on the Roadfly.com site.. Will advise..
If you decide to come down to Seattle, well you are not that far anyway, so come on down ! I know the Seattle BMWCCA club is pretty good and they would also be glad to help you out. I will look over their site tomorrow and see if anyone has an M3 out there for sale.. Will look at the Roundel Magazine on line and go back a few months of issues I have at home too..
One thing about the Bimmer club members, we are all very helpful, and go out of our way to assist whenever we can.. They also publish one of the best car club magazines ever.. No I dont work for them, I just have been a member for about 9 years now..

Good luck !
DanF

Hey, I am a member of the NYC chapter of BMWCCA http://nybmwcca.org/forums/index.php This is one club that all BMW owners should be a part of.. Membership info should be in the owners manual packet of your car. Track events, discounts on the purchase of your next BMW and other benefits are just some of the perks of membership. F.Y.I the Comp package was an option in 05-06

I have the 2002 M3 brochure if anyone is interested for $$.. Fay?

[Faymester]

Why are M3s so expencive in the states? Those are up at Canadian prices ($50k) Maybe there are just a lot of M3s floating around Vancouver relative to everywhere else. Were M3s really rare down there?

I think I'll tell the guy to just find one that's fully loaded + ZCP, this seems easiest.

Is there anything I don't want on my M3? (asside from SMG, because we've already figured out that's basically useless)

[92 SC400]

Originally Posted by Faymester

Why are M3s so expencive in the states? Those are up at Canadian prices ($50k) Maybe there are just a lot of M3s floating around Vancouver relative to everywhere else. Were M3s really rare down there?

I think I'll tell the guy to just find one that's fully loaded + ZCP, this seems easiest.

Is there anything I don't want on my M3? (asside from SMG, because we've already figured out that's basically useless)

Through my time spent shopping for these cars, I too, found that many were over-valued/priced compared to realistic market prices. I think a lot of private owners are starting to realize their Ms aren't quite worth what they think it is, but dealers seemed to have ignored that, at least when I was looking.

About 5-6 months ago I found a "base" 2001 M3 with 19.5k miles and the dealer was asking $30k for it; this car had no CD player, manual seats and cloth interior mind you. It did have Xenons but that was about the only option (though there weren't THAT many in '01). It was in good, not excellent condition; it had some minor scratches, paint crack on the rear bumper and the front bumper didnt look to properly align with the fenders, etc... The dealer would not go any lower than $28k on it because "it's an M car and it sells itself."

I've still be watching prices on these cars, though I am not actively shopping for one anymore, and have noticed that prices have come down a bit. You can average mileage ZCP cars for around $28-30k, which was near impossible not that long ago. The one posted above did have extraordinarily low miles though!

[rominl]

Originally Posted by 92 SC400

Through my time spent shopping for these cars, I too, found that many were over-valued/priced compared to realistic market prices. I think a lot of private owners are starting to realize their Ms aren't quite worth what they think it is, but dealers seemed to have ignored that, at least when I was looking.

About 5-6 months ago I found a "base" 2001 M3 with 19.5k miles and the dealer was asking $30k for it; this car had no CD player, manual seats and cloth interior mind you. It did have Xenons but that was about the only option (though there weren't THAT many in '01). It was in good, not excellent condition; it had some minor scratches, paint crack on the rear bumper and the front bumper didnt look to properly align with the fenders, etc... The dealer would not go any lower than $28k on it because "it's an M car and it sells itself."

I've still be watching prices on these cars, though I am not actively shopping for one anymore, and have noticed that prices have come down a bit. You can average mileage ZCP cars for around $28-30k, which was near impossible not that long ago. The one posted above did have extraordinarily low miles though!

haha and i will continue to see the car at the lot itself

a lot of the private sellers and dealers are like that these days. they are over confident with their cars and prices, but they don't realize the market and economy has come down dramatically for them to accept the reality. shopping for our e93 m3 was a prime example

the e46 m3 prices are definitely down a lot already specially with the e9x out for more than a year, if condition is good, that's a bargain car

[rominl]

well maybe coz' it has comp package and low miles? and at the same time, it's asking price, god knows how much it's sold for. most of the e46 m3 with reasonable miles i have seen, they are all going for mid to high 20s