2010 Lexus RX 450h Makes 30 MPG Combined
03-10-09, 01:00 PM
#61
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Here's a report from Ricardo and UBS:
Diesels will outsell hybrids in the U.S. by 2012
This deluded talk of the rest of the world adapting to Japanese preferences simply because it is "the best" is very narrow-minded, in my opinion.
Diesels will outsell hybrids in the U.S. by 2012
This deluded talk of the rest of the world adapting to Japanese preferences simply because it is "the best" is very narrow-minded, in my opinion.
03-10-09, 01:02 PM
#62
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you cant say that those diesels are as quiet as a hybrid 
you cant say that those diesels are cleaner than a hybrid
you cant say that those diesels are faster than a hybrid
you cant say that diesel gas prices are cheaper than gas (esp not in America)
but i guess you can say that you can tow more
you cant say that those diesels are cleaner than a hybrid
you cant say that those diesels are faster than a hybrid
you cant say that diesel gas prices are cheaper than gas (esp not in America)
but i guess you can say that you can tow more
03-10-09, 01:38 PM
#63
Here's a report from Ricardo and UBS:
Diesels will outsell hybrids in the U.S. by 2012
This deluded talk of the rest of the world adapting to Japanese preferences simply because it is "the best" is very narrow-minded, in my opinion.
Diesels will outsell hybrids in the U.S. by 2012
This deluded talk of the rest of the world adapting to Japanese preferences simply because it is "the best" is very narrow-minded, in my opinion.
by Sam Abuelsamid on May 25th 2007 at 7:58PM
Hmm...
I would say that 2 years changes a lot. The hype of the new clean diesels was at full swing back then and now...
Oops!
Quote from the article...
Toyota, however, is projecting that it will achieve cost parity between hybrids and conventional drivetrains in the next few years. More likely is a scenario in which fuel efficiency and emissions requirements reach a point where diesel-hybrids become a necessity. As batteries improve and Series Hybrids like the Chevy Volt become a reality, diesels will be the likely choice as range extenders. In the short term, diesels are moving full speed ahead, at least from European manufacturers, so we'll just have to wait and see how American drivers take to them.
Last edited by ffpowerLN; 03-10-09 at 02:25 PM.
03-10-09, 01:39 PM
#64
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The urea refills last as long as your service's. They simply refill when you're in for your oil change. And if you happen to run out, you can still drive it to the dealership.
As for the luxury CROSSOVERS like the X5 and ML using for towing duty, unless you can prove me wrong with some cold hard numbers I don't buy any of those. At least in America they normally aren't, people who want to tow stuffs will get a pickup truck or some BOF SUVs, luxury crossovers are for soccer mom/dad shuttle duties...
03-10-09, 01:46 PM
#65
I am looking for the the percentage of those luxury crossovers like X5 and ML are actually USED in daily life for towing duty. Also, how many of the luxury crossover buyers actually made their decision on the towing capcity or how many actually took that into consideration when buying.
I know they can tow but I want to know how many soccer moms/dads use their $50k+ luxury crossovers for towing.
03-10-09, 02:06 PM
#66
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Let's take a look at the date of that article...
by Sam Abuelsamid on May 25th 2007 at 7:58PM
Hmm...
I would say that 2 years changes a lot. The hype of the new clean diesels was at full swing back then and now...
Oops!
Quete from the article...
We kind of have the 2-year answer already...
by Sam Abuelsamid on May 25th 2007 at 7:58PM
Hmm...
I would say that 2 years changes a lot. The hype of the new clean diesels was at full swing back then and now...
Oops!
Quete from the article...
We kind of have the 2-year answer already...
If you can state what's changed in the last two years to adversely affect the ongoing push of the technology in the US, please do. Gas prices have dropped significantly, Prius sales are down 50%, and diesel gasoline is now nearly at parity with regular petrol. The fundamental framework is now more inviting than ever for diesels get real traction here in the United States. So please, tell me how "all the hype" is gone. Why is BMW AG spending millions of dollars promoting their performance diesels here? Why is Volkswagen AG gearing up to produce 30% of the vehicles at their new Chattanooga plant as diesels? Why is Nissan about to pair an electric motor with a diesel engine? Are all of the high level executives making a calculated bad decision by not going 100% petrol/electric? So how, exactly, is the diesel trend in the US over (before it even began)? It's just starting.
The notion that only hybrids have a place is both absurd and without merit. Both technologies are great for changing perceptions of efficiency on a whole. But to try and argue that the 53% of vehicles sold in Europe which where diesel were bought by people who don't have a clue and would be better off with hybrids is short-sighted and a bit rude. Both are great, they both have a place.
03-10-09, 04:10 PM
#69
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The RX isn't significantly cheaper than an ML 320 Bluetec up here. Pricing hasn't been released, but apparently the hybrid will be around $68-70K up here. That's the same ballpark as the MB.
The urea refills last as long as your service's. They simply refill when you're in for your oil change. And if you happen to run out, you can still drive it to the dealership.
The urea refills last as long as your service's. They simply refill when you're in for your oil change. And if you happen to run out, you can still drive it to the dealership.
As for urea injection, if you don't adhere to your maintence schedule, which alot of people don't do to time and cost of doing so you risk depleting your tank and not being able to start your vehicle. I think that this would be especially problematic if your on vacation, etc. and weren't near a service center. Even though you can start the vehicle for a certain number of times on an empty urea tank, well then it isn't a clean diesel. And from what I read you have to pay for urea injections after your 4 years free maintence. On a side note, I am laughing as BMW told my dad that he could purchase another year of free maintence on his BMW...so that wouldn't be free now would it?
I don't see the point of buying a diesel X5, ML unless you tow a boat larger than 25 feet on a regular basis. Two years ago the ML and 400h were tied for Hwy MPG. Now, the hybrid has the advantage.
03-10-09, 07:02 PM
#70
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I thought you said you were done discussing this, but if you want to continue, consider the recent diesel trend in the United States. Perceptions are slowly changing, and many are realizing that the technology is a viable alternative to a petrol/electric setup.
If you can state what's changed in the last two years to adversely affect the ongoing push of the technology in the US, please do. Gas prices have dropped significantly, Prius sales are down 50%, and diesel gasoline is now nearly at parity with regular petrol. The fundamental framework is now more inviting than ever for diesels get real traction here in the United States. So please, tell me how "all the hype" is gone. Why is BMW AG spending millions of dollars promoting their performance diesels here? Why is Volkswagen AG gearing up to produce 30% of the vehicles at their new Chattanooga plant as diesels? Why is Nissan about to pair an electric motor with a diesel engine? Are all of the high level executives making a calculated bad decision by not going 100% petrol/electric? So how, exactly, is the diesel trend in the US over (before it even began)? It's just starting.
The notion that only hybrids have a place is both absurd and without merit. Both technologies are great for changing perceptions of efficiency on a whole. But to try and argue that the 53% of vehicles sold in Europe which where diesel were bought by people who don't have a clue and would be better off with hybrids is short-sighted and a bit rude. Both are great, they both have a place.
If you can state what's changed in the last two years to adversely affect the ongoing push of the technology in the US, please do. Gas prices have dropped significantly, Prius sales are down 50%, and diesel gasoline is now nearly at parity with regular petrol. The fundamental framework is now more inviting than ever for diesels get real traction here in the United States. So please, tell me how "all the hype" is gone. Why is BMW AG spending millions of dollars promoting their performance diesels here? Why is Volkswagen AG gearing up to produce 30% of the vehicles at their new Chattanooga plant as diesels? Why is Nissan about to pair an electric motor with a diesel engine? Are all of the high level executives making a calculated bad decision by not going 100% petrol/electric? So how, exactly, is the diesel trend in the US over (before it even began)? It's just starting.
The notion that only hybrids have a place is both absurd and without merit. Both technologies are great for changing perceptions of efficiency on a whole. But to try and argue that the 53% of vehicles sold in Europe which where diesel were bought by people who don't have a clue and would be better off with hybrids is short-sighted and a bit rude. Both are great, they both have a place.
HA dude just give it up. You're like that guy 100 years ago who said horses will be #1 transportation for ever, and cars will never catch on.
Just wait till plug in hybrids like Fisker start coming out. 100mpg. What's your diesel got? 50mpg??? haha good luck with that.
03-10-09, 07:37 PM
#71
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anyways the ML 320 diesel gets 20 mpg combined, that's what on par with the ordinary RX 350 and 10 mpg behind the RX 450h. Diesels haven't set the charts on fire either. The most advanced of them can barely pass CARB emissions, they're a dying technology.
Last edited by Mr. Jones; 03-10-09 at 07:44 PM.
03-10-09, 09:24 PM
#73
If you can state what's changed in the last two years to adversely affect the ongoing push of the technology in the US, please do. Gas prices have dropped significantly, Prius sales are down 50%, and diesel gasoline is now nearly at parity with regular petrol. The fundamental framework is now more inviting than ever for diesels get real traction here in the United States. So please, tell me how "all the hype" is gone.
Why is BMW AG spending millions of dollars promoting their performance diesels here? Why is Volkswagen AG gearing up to produce 30% of the vehicles at their new Chattanooga plant as diesels? Why is Nissan about to pair an electric motor with a diesel engine? Are all of the high level executives making a calculated bad decision by not going 100% petrol/electric? So how, exactly, is the diesel trend in the US over (before it even began)? It's just starting.
The notion that only hybrids have a place is both absurd and without merit. Both technologies are great for changing perceptions of efficiency on a whole. But to try and argue that the 53% of vehicles sold in Europe which where diesel were bought by people who don't have a clue and would be better off with hybrids is short-sighted and a bit rude. Both are great, they both have a place.
RX 400h/450h in comparison to diesel models from German companies is not exactly an apples to apples comparison because of price and size differences but I think the telling numbers are in comparing number of diesels or hybrids sold to gas or overall sales. Lexus is actually a bit over 1/3...36% if I recall correctly, and I know the ML 320CDI and X5 diesel are nowhere near that.
At the end of the day it's great to have the choice, but I think that for USA the clear choice is and will be hybrids.
03-10-09, 10:43 PM
#74
Sorry, but have to disagree here. These statements may have been true a decade ago but today's diesels are none of the above.
We've driven the X5 35d and the ML Bluetec (twice) over the last few weeks. Both are quiet enough that, outside of start up, you'd hardly notice that it was a diesel. Even at start up, it's nothing like old style diesels that rumble and gurgle.
That "bit" of torque is huge for both the MB and BMW. They have 400 and 425 lb/ft respectively. Towing capabilities are roughly 7000 lbs for the Germans, while the RX is only capable of hauling 3500 lbs.
Both the Bluetec and 35d use a process that injects urea into the exhaust that reacts and is supposed to expel almost entirely water. I haven't researched all of the technical specs for this new technology but it is certainly a step in the right direction.
Currently, diesel is 10 cents per liter (40 cents per gallon) cheaper than regular fuel and 22 cents (88 cents per gallon) cheaper than premium.
The new diesels are serious contenders to the hybrid in all areas.
The wife just has to make up her mind whether she wants the Bluetec or the 450h.
We've driven the X5 35d and the ML Bluetec (twice) over the last few weeks. Both are quiet enough that, outside of start up, you'd hardly notice that it was a diesel. Even at start up, it's nothing like old style diesels that rumble and gurgle.
That "bit" of torque is huge for both the MB and BMW. They have 400 and 425 lb/ft respectively. Towing capabilities are roughly 7000 lbs for the Germans, while the RX is only capable of hauling 3500 lbs.
Both the Bluetec and 35d use a process that injects urea into the exhaust that reacts and is supposed to expel almost entirely water. I haven't researched all of the technical specs for this new technology but it is certainly a step in the right direction.
Currently, diesel is 10 cents per liter (40 cents per gallon) cheaper than regular fuel and 22 cents (88 cents per gallon) cheaper than premium.
The new diesels are serious contenders to the hybrid in all areas.
The wife just has to make up her mind whether she wants the Bluetec or the 450h.
. Diesel is more expensive than regular in B.C.
03-10-09, 10:52 PM
#75
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Gee it really is amazing how many guys loving being so b!t@chy with each other over something as trivial as diesel vs hybrid. They are both great technologies. And, as a consumer, I like being able to look at both. Diesels haven't done well here but they do very well in Europe. Now before anyone feels like pointing out that hybrids aren't exactly available in large quantities in Europe, save the bandwidth. I acknowledge your mental superiority in stating the obvious. And just as hybrids aren't flooding europe, diesels haven't exactly been flooding the US market.
Looking at one of the recent car mags that had the 335d run up to 55K in price, I don't think they will get much traction here. Note to the hybrid fanboys, here in Cali, diesel is now at or lower than regular. $2.07 or less for diesel which is right there with regular and 20 cents or so cheaper a gallon less than premium. But one of the additional problems with diesel is that it should cost less than petrol, but it rarely does here in the US. Now, back to the ranting.
Looking at one of the recent car mags that had the 335d run up to 55K in price, I don't think they will get much traction here. Note to the hybrid fanboys, here in Cali, diesel is now at or lower than regular. $2.07 or less for diesel which is right there with regular and 20 cents or so cheaper a gallon less than premium. But one of the additional problems with diesel is that it should cost less than petrol, but it rarely does here in the US. Now, back to the ranting.