IS-SV

Exactly, no Buick is close to being a Lexus (or a Mercedes, Audi, Beemer, Infiniti, Acura)


To compare the Buick to the most mediocre Lexus sedan made today (ES350) actually makes the Buick seem somewhat comparible, I agree. But despite the ES350's shortcoming, it's still a popular car in terms of sales volume and a superior driving experience with far better exterior/interior styling. The ES350 is actually very attactive, standing out from the Camry on which it's based.

mmarshall

Perhaps, but most of the people who buy Buicks probably don't live in CA. But that doesn't mean those people are going away, despite the advanced age of a number of them. There's still plenty of them left.

CA, despite its well-known status as a leader in the country's car culture, is, in some ways, a world unto itself, and, because of the unique regulations done by CARB and the state legislature, its auto market is different from that of many other states. Even different fuels are marketed there, for pollution reasons. For years, some vehicles that were sold in other states couldn't be purchased in CA (diesels are an example), because of that state's stringent regulations.

IS-SV

Agreed, GM interiors have improved vastly in the past few years in both their cars and trucks. But the numerous divisions carrying mediocre cars with outdated pushrod motors, old auto trannies, ugly exteriors, it's coming to an end mainly because of the financial crisis they are in.

Pontiac and Saturn are toast, just waiting for the ax to fall. Buick will probably survive in some form only because of its sales volume in China. To keep selling this crap at loss is a waste of good dollars (and that's even a bigger concern now the US tax payer dollars are involved.) They are litterly wrapping $100 dollar bills around each crappy car they sell at a big loss.

mmarshall

Pontiac will probably go before Saturn does. Outside of the G6 folding-hardtop model, which offers that unique feature at a relatively low price, and the G8 GT, there is little in its lineup that is worth looking at....or that Chevy doesn't basically share at a lower price. Even the Solstice, IMO, is not as nice as its Saturn Sky brother.

Saturn, though, even with the loss of its unique plastic-body cars (which, IMO, they should have kept) has a little more going for it, though. The VUE, Aura, Sky, and Outlook are all fairly nice vehicles. The Astra, though, is rather ho-hum. But Saturn still has its customer-friendly sales and service policies, and that is a fairly powerful sales tool.

IS-SV

Yes, loser divisions in a death spiral. Not worth saving if you are on verge of going bankrupt.

Saturn has lost money in a majority of its years of existence, no business case to continue these cheezy/plasticicky/substandard cars. btw--I know a long term Saturn emplyee that did get a profit sharing check one year.

Saturn's warm and fuzzy sales approach did appeal mainly to women buyers, but not enough business to make a profit unfortunately.

Saturn-RIP

IS-SV

Good points, and these California regs will all became US regs soon enough. Have you noticed that almost all Mercedes/Porsches/Toyotas etc. are 50 state cars already? And with the new Obama administration focused more on envirnonmental issues, the trend will accelerate.

California is the leader in the world for auto trends. All the major companies have design studios in southern Cal.

btw-I remember Lee Iaccocca talking about the Chrysler Imperial and saying "most of these buyers are old or going to be dead soon", to justify dumping the line. Reminds me of Buick.

LexBob2

It's not like Buick isn't selling any cars. YTD sales = Lucerne 50,779, LaCrosse 35,422 and Enclave 41,416 so I think they'll be around for a while.

It is a stretch however, to think they are competition for various Lexus models. A noble claim, but they're not there.

They'll continue to appeal to their demographic and will do just fine.

Hey, with any luck we'll all be "geezers" someday. Some of us sooner than others, and maybe Buick will be on the shopping list - Maybe not.

LexFather

People buy mediocre Acuras. Buick sadly has the wrong BADGE so people avoid it. I think they are coming around. The Enclave CLEARLY shows they get it, it is superb. The Lacrosse and Lucerne are solid but the OLD GM. Replacements will be better.

I do agree though I could not even begin to consider one b/c of IMAGE and I LIKE Buicks

pagemaster

The Lacrosse is GM junk. The interior looks bland and outdated. The centre stack is bad. I never realized the importance of engine bay covers until I just saw the exposed engine bay of this Lacrosse.

Another thing. What is with the fuel door having no fuel door lock. That is terrible.

Yeah you are right. The Lacrosse is no Lexus.

mmarshall

Well, it was the Bush Administration that gave us the latest round of CAFE mileage requirements, not Obama. Yes, I have noticed a trend to "50-state" cars....I've posted about it in other threads. But auto manufacturers are going to so-called "50-state" cars because of lower production complexity and costs, not because of a real "50-state" trend, although you are correct that several Northeast states did adopt CA's more stringent emission regs.

Like it or not, it is usually money, profits, and production costs that determine auto marketing decisions....with some government regs, of course. I don't like the system any more than you do (auto marketers are some of my favorite pet peeves, with reason), but it's something we're pretty much stuck with.



Lido dumped the early-80s Imperial because of production costs and relatively low volume, not average buyer age (You have to remember that he was a master at buisness smooth-talk). In fact, the car did appeal to some younger, well-heeled corporate and bank execs. The main problem with it, though, was that it was not a real Imperial....there was too much of the lower-line Chrysler Cordoba in it.

That, however, not not compare with Buick today, whose products, unlike the early-80's Imperial, are well-established across the country, with millions of drivers. Though younger buyers DO buy and drive Buicks (more so than the all-Granny image painted by the auto press), it is, admittedly, an extremely popular brand with those 55 and up.

mmarshall

I respect your opinion, but disagree. As I see it, the interior is plush-looking, user-friendly, and does not make one screw around with electronic toys and joysticks while trying to keep one's eyes on the road. I agree, however, the engine cover is excessively cheap plastic (more so than on some other cars), but it does allow some work to be done around its edges....that's one of the things I check out on the UNDERHOOD part of my reviews.


Agreed, that is nonsense....I mentioned that in the review. But you can't just point a finger at Buick. Almost all domestic, American-designed Ford, GM, and Chrysler products lack one...as well as a few lower-line imports. It is just one of the things that are left out of the assembly lines to save a few cents on each car. BTW, I am in favor of a Federal regulation making them mandatory on new cars....as well as swiveling outside mirror housings.



True. But, then, IMO, the new ES350, which the LaCrosse goes up against, is not exactly the Lexus the ES once was, either. Its drivetrain is better than the Buick's (except for the well-known Lexus transmisison flares); its paint job is marginally better, but the rest of the car? I'm not so sure.

mmarshall

[QUOTE=1SICKLEX;4123764]People buy mediocre Acuras. Buick sadly has the wrong BADGE so people avoid it. I think they are coming around. The Enclave CLEARLY shows they get it, it is superb.

mmarshall

The Enclave, though, is more of a family-minivan type vehicle. The Lucerne and LaCrosse appeal more to those whose kids are long grown-up and gone; in other words, the "empty-nesters".

Depends on what you mean by "better". If Buick tries to do what Cadillac has done and make BMWs and sport sedans out of their line, they risk alienating their traditional customer base....and those people may end up moving to Mercury and Lincoln.

Buick has tried, in the past, to market "sport sedans", not only with the late-80's Grand National, but the GS350/400/GSX muscle cars of the 60's. It has also done a number of semi-sport Rivieras, a Reatta two-seater, Vega-based Skyhawk sub-compacts, and Opel-derived imports. None of these have proved very popular, although the 60's intage Riviera sold fairly well. Buick, like it or not, just seems to do best when it is BUICK, not a sports-oriented manufacturer.


I don't let "image" bother me. I buy either what I want or what is best for my own needs......and recommend vehicles that way to others when they come to me for advice. But you, compared to a number of others here on CL, also seem to be open-minded , although you and I, admittedly, may never completely see eye-to-eye on the Acura RL....we'll just respect each other's opinion on that

LexFather

Well Mike image does count for me and most people and even people who say "it doesn't mean anything to me". Surely there are truly a few people who could care less but they are few and far between.

Again, I hope GM continues to invest in BUick and expand the lineup. I totally agree they should stay like a BUICK and not chase sport. There is a HUGE aging population that surely wants old school comfort and not 45 series tire comfort!

IS-SV

Yes, I'm not pointing out Obama vs. Bush on the CAFE requirements, but 50 state cars will make up the majority of the cars if they aren't already. It's just good economies of scale. The trend will continue in that direction.

I really don't care about speculation as to why the Imperial was dumped. Those were Lee's words that I quoted, not mine. The car was just another example of of money-loosing piece of junk.

Of course car companies are not charities, therefore profit has to motivate decisions. And over 1/2 the divisions of GM are bleeding money badly.

I'm glad somebody is a fan of the Buick, they are popular in China for sure. It's wonderful that Buick is so popular with the over 55 age group.