LexFather

No sense to go way back into time in the 1990s as we have all seen Infiniti grow sales/popularity here in America the last 5 years. A brand that was once going to be discontinued as a whole, rebounded, led not by the new Q45 (now also discontinued)


but the G35 (our version of the Nissan Skyline as you know) coupe and sedan. While the G35 sedan was expected, few expected the G35 coupe and for it to look so, damn, "right".

With them offering manuals in the G35s, it also attracted the 3rd pedal junkies many brands have abandoned. The new FX was a hit for being "different" and the 3rd gen M35/45 has a huge hit for the brand. In between you had the I30 discontinued and the QX56 helping sales. They brought new style to the brand with very very attractive MSRPs and lease rates. Quality is usually ranked highly and dealer treatment/ownership experience is also usually ranked high. Predictions were the brand would continue to flourish and the new Q45 was coming and it was going to be a legitimate Tier 1 brand, including branching into Europe finally.

Today, YTD, Infiniti has sold 108k vehicles. For the year, Infiniti should end around 114k in their biggest market, the USA. The brand is back in crisis.

If sales continue to plummet for them (and everyone else) for the various economic reasons we are aware, we are a brand that has 2 all new SUVs, one refreshed G37 series and 1 older QX, M35/45 not selling very well here. Then we have to add the fact that some of their lineup currently is not want the market wants in most cases, just poor product placement (EX/FX/).

Arguably their best vehicle is the G37 sedan(coupe) and its just been updated and sales will probably dip in 2009.


This is the same problem that plagues Acura as it can be contested the ENTRY LEVEL car is as good as the best the company FLAGSHIP. You cannot say the 3/IS/C/A4 is as good as a 5/GS/E/A6 let alone the 7/LS/S/A8. That would be ridiculous. The M35/45 are due for replacement in 2010 and will see sales dip. The QX will continue to sell poorly and news is it will be discontinued and replaced with a version of the Nissan Petrol (a good move IMO). The all new EX and FX have been very very poorly received here, with sales so low you would not think they are all new. Infiniti might sell 90-95k vehicles here next year. To put this in retrospect, they sold that poorly back in 2002 when the new G35 debuted. This is a HUGE black eye for this brand that was supposedly rising and turning things around.

With all carmakers now reviewing planned products and spending, I do not see Infiniti further separating from Nissan as planned as that will cost a lot of money. We shall continue to see rebadges and platform sharing with Nissan and in INfiniti Europe's case, with Renault as well.

We have read of a new Infiniti (another) based off the 370Z coming and rumors of a GT-R Infiniti coming as well as maybe a Q45 replacement. I don't see Ghosn signing off on these products looking at current sales and were sales will go with the current lineup. Ghosn will NOT sign off on a product if it will not make money. With them continuing to sharing major parts, they will possibly make it to production but don't count on it.



Infiniti is in bad shape not just here but in Europe. Their debut in Europe couldn't come at a WORSE time. The reviews so far have been okay/mixed at best (EVO/CAR) with the G37 sedan called ugly and getting a 3 star rating, the G37 coupe getting a 4 star rating and a "Shame it looks like a Hyundai". The FX has gotten 3 stars and the conclusion is "a vehicle for those in the X6 market, a market we don't like or understand". Europe is even MORE IMAGE conscious than us, this is not the press they want to read. With budgets tightning abroad as well, people will continue to buy the status quo and Infiniti I predict will not meet their modest sales goals (8-12k a year) there. Ghosn again will not be happy to see the sales results.

The brand seems to be better received in the UAE and Middle East but except sales to decline there as well (and still very small sales).


Infiniti yearly sales results
1989 1,723
1990 23,960
1991 34,890
1992 44,387
1993 50,547
1994 51,449
1995 58,616
1996 55,469
1997 65,552
1998 63,649
1999 72,637
2000 78,351
2001- 71,365
2002- 87,911 (best year in history at the time)
2003- ?????????
2004-130,987
2005-136,401
2006-121,146
2007-127,038
2008- 114,000 (projected)
2009=???????? (95,000 projected)

I've said for years they won't be a big player here as their management still doesn't get ALL of it. With the American economy in decline, the status quo (BMW/Benz/Lexus) will continue to garner sales as they are trusted brands. Infiniti has not done a good enough job here even with better sales as they don't have enough image to go into other markets and have people know what to expect from the brand. Europe has been one tough nut to crack for Lexus (mostly their fault as they just now are offering Europeans what they want) and Infiniti seemingly is going into Europe with the same ignorant attitude.

Dealers are NOT happy. Dealers have been asked by the brand (as Acura/Lexus asked their dealers) to invest millions to update and revamp dealerships in promise of better selling products the last couple years. I've personally seen an Infiniti dealer move into an old Lexus dealership. It looks bare as they don't have enough product to fill the lot up 1/2 way. As sales decline, dealers are upset as they are losing money both ways. They did NOT want the EX35 and they are confused with Nissan interiors getting Infiniti cues. Margins are very low as most of the vehicles sold are entry level G35 models.

Infiniti has done a good job of making themselves a better brand for themselves. The next M37/M50 will again be a legitimate contender for the class crown. The Nissan Petrol is their version of the Toyota Prado (our GX) so its a much better stating point than the POS Armada. I find the current G37 pretty much all the car you need in sedan form and one of the best all around vehicles out in ANY class.

This is not about Lexus or competing with Lexus. This is about this brands survival, again. Ghosn sits at his desk looking at the Infiniti sales sheet and projections. Not looking good at all. Does he pull the plug? Does he risk continuing to invest in the brand with new products where they have a hit or miss history? Does the brand continue but get ignored again? Is Ghosn happy with staying a niche brand in America? Will Europe work or will it fail for the brand?

Your thoughts.

Byprodrive

iTrader: (1)

Maybe Ghosn is starting to realize you can't just move a huge company like Nissan across the country without losing many key people that are crucial to day to day operations to maintain the gains you have worked so long for

CDNROCKIES

This is NOT another GT-R bashing thread.

Personally, I think the car is very impressive, though not my cup of tea. The mark-up was ridiculous or this may have been a strong contender to my F, solely for it's performance capabilities.

My question is why didn't/doesn't Nissan come out with an Infiniti version of it??? The reality is that it is an incredible performance car that destroys a lot of it's "upscale" competition, regardless of price. If there was a "lux" version of it, don't you think it would walk all over the M3, C63, IS F and be stronger than an M5, CTS-V, etc.?

Imo, Infiniti faces some of the same identity issues that Lexus struggles with.

To be truly competitive with MB, BMW and Audi there needs to be competitiveness across all lines on the performance level. If not, aren't you just going to be an upscale Buick?

IS-SV

Infiniti is selling a lot of cars in the lucrative Bay Area California market, with significant discounting of course.

pagemaster

Nissan is happy with their Infiniti sales. They are an extension of Nissan sales and help keep the production lines moving. It was the right move to kill the Q45 as there really is no market for Inifinti to sell a low volume flagship.

Another thing, Infiniti dealers are not burdened with stand alone dealers (at least in most of Canada) as they can share the service bays with Nissans. 114k for Inifinti is pretty damned good considering the line of cars is limited

I still thing they have the best interiors in any $50k car.

PhantomZX

I think the current G35/G37 is one of the most beautiful sedans ever. They were on a roll, they just hit some bad luck with this global economic downturn.

I also love the Around View Monitor and wish they put it in all their vehicles.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I don't think this is the time to panic and make wholesale changes without a deliberate strategy. Every is losing sales right now. Many people aren't buying and many banks aren't lending.
I do think Infiniti made a mistake of not keeping the VQ engine from the G35. They spent years working out the kinks, the engine made good power but they scrapped it. Now I hear the new engine is having some small issues and requires some special oil that costs $12 a quart? The engine develops knocks. Infiniti had a good engine and should have continued to develop it.
I also think the G37 looks good but not as good as a G35 successor should. The G35 was sporty, edgy and cool. The G37 seems softer, more Lexus-like.

Oh well, the Nissan 370Z will come out and sell like hotcakes and Nissan will be happy again. Unless it doesn't sell like hotcakes..........

Lexmex

I have walked into a Lexus dealer, an Acura dealer and an Infiniti dealer since I got back to Miami a few months ago. These are the same dealers that I knew when I grew up here more than 15 years ago and when I walk into the Lexus and Acura dealers there is a little bit more LIFE so to speak in the salespeople and the overall environment, but when I walked into the Infiniti dealer a bit south of where I live, it feels like something died. I felt like I was maybe in the Nissan dealership. I have been to a few Infiniti dealers (often when I'd be visiting from Mexico) and it always felt dead in there.

I also remember the time I was looking at the then new RX330 and later took a test drive of the FX45, and the salesperson at Infiniti was showing me how easy it was to open the rear gate of the FX by hand, but that didn't compare to the RX330 which was automatic. It seemed to me that Infiniti was always behind the times in most aspects. I think their navigation systems were about the only thing good that stood out in my mind.

Infiniti was a terrible disaster in Mexico and they only had two vehicles there, and now they supposedly want to come back in force (Acura is there and Lexus will be there very shortly). I keep feeling their executives are trying to hit home run ***** with stuff like the G series or maybe the FX series, but when you get up close to these vehicles, they're not bad, but they're not a home run compared to the competition.

pagemaster

No way. I am glad they didn't come out with an infiniti version. I like the fact that they made it a Nissan. Unlike Lexus which I do not think the Lexus F was a good idea, Toyota should of made a Toyota Supra supercar instead.

IMO the Toyota Supra will always be a stronger branded car than any F Lexus.

Is the IS-F a good car? Sure it is. Is it worth $60k? Yes. Is it it the right direction for Lexus? I don't believe it is.

As for the Nissan GT-R. I think its a brilliant masterpiece of automotive engineering.

IS-SV

US market is the biggest for Infiniti and all the dealers that I've seen in the US are fancy standalone dealers.

pagemaster

That is very interesting. I have yet to see a stand alone Infiniti dealer here in Canada

CDNROCKIES

Then you are missing the point entirely. I assume that your answer to the original post is that Infinity will be finite then? For Infiniti or Lexus to truly compete with the established benchmarks (ie. Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz), they need to compete on all levels, performance included.

If they are unwilling or unable to develop high performance vehicles, they will be relegated to glorified Buick status. Lexus has at least made an attempt at entering into a market that the Germans dominate. For Lexus to gain credbility they need to create vehicles that can compete against all line-ups.

Infiniti doesn't and never has had a vehicle that you could put up against a German sports car, even at the entry level (ie. RS4, M3 or C63/C55 AMG). The same criticisms that apply to Lexus are relevant here: nice cars, with luxurious interiors that are super reliable....BUT....they don't drive like the Germans.

xknowonex

iTrader: (2)

I would love to have the G37 over any comparable cars in its class

Tekknikal

the m is a significant step up from the g in terms of luxury.

in my opinion, infiniti could use a version of nissan's new electric car.

they also need to redo qx and in the next ex offer some more space

the g/m/fx/ex are all great though.. especially the first two..

Overclocker

I'm in Detroit, get the GM employee discount, and looked at a comparable CTS AWD, but I was able to get an entry level G35x for less money if that tells you anything...

BTW, I love driving it every chance I get.