Toyota Cancels Diesel Contract with Isuzu
12-17-08, 08:44 AM
#1
Speaks French in Russian
Thread Starter
Toyota Cancels Diesel Contract with Isuzu
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradv...nger-cars.html
Citing growing uncertainty over market demand for the vehicles, Toyota Motor Corp. has called off an18-month-old joint venture to develop a 1.6-liter diesel engine for passenger cars with diesel specialist Isuzu Motors.
The Toyota-Isuzu diesel project, announced in June, 2007, was a direct response to Honda Motor Co.'s earlier announcement that it was developing a diesel for its passenger cars and would introduce it in the U.S. and Japan in 2009.
Honda earlier this year put its U.S. diesel plans on hold because the price gap here between diesel fuel and gasoline has erased the more expensive diesel engine's fuel efficiency cost advantage.
Toyota and Isuzu had said they would start introducing diesel engines in Toyota cars in Europe in 2012.
Toyota, which has focused on gas-electric hybrid technology in the U.S. and Japan, has said it could bring a diesel passenger car to the U.S. if demand were there, but has never announced a project.
Now, with sales of all types of cars and trucks plummeting, Toyota is reviewing every project as it seeks ways to cut costs. It also is suspending work on a Mississippi plant that was to be the home for U.S. produced Prius hybrids.
The Toyota-Isuzu diesel project, announced in June, 2007, was a direct response to Honda Motor Co.'s earlier announcement that it was developing a diesel for its passenger cars and would introduce it in the U.S. and Japan in 2009.
Honda earlier this year put its U.S. diesel plans on hold because the price gap here between diesel fuel and gasoline has erased the more expensive diesel engine's fuel efficiency cost advantage.
Toyota and Isuzu had said they would start introducing diesel engines in Toyota cars in Europe in 2012.
Toyota, which has focused on gas-electric hybrid technology in the U.S. and Japan, has said it could bring a diesel passenger car to the U.S. if demand were there, but has never announced a project.
Now, with sales of all types of cars and trucks plummeting, Toyota is reviewing every project as it seeks ways to cut costs. It also is suspending work on a Mississippi plant that was to be the home for U.S. produced Prius hybrids.
12-17-08, 10:56 AM
#4
uhm, Isuzu-Toyota project had nothing to do with Toyota in USA - as it was about small diesel engine for european market...
Toyota already has class leading diesel engines and just updated their range in Europe for 2009, so now there is 1.4l 90h, 2.0l 126hp, 2.2 150hp and 2.2 177hp for passanger vehicles, and few others for Land Cruisers and commercial vehicles.
In fact, this agreement really never made sense to me as Toyota had a lot of diesel engines, it seemed as if they were renting Isuzu engineers because they were too spread out on their own projects.
Toyota already has class leading diesel engines and just updated their range in Europe for 2009, so now there is 1.4l 90h, 2.0l 126hp, 2.2 150hp and 2.2 177hp for passanger vehicles, and few others for Land Cruisers and commercial vehicles.
In fact, this agreement really never made sense to me as Toyota had a lot of diesel engines, it seemed as if they were renting Isuzu engineers because they were too spread out on their own projects.
12-17-08, 01:08 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Makes a lot of sense. Power, efficiency, durability, relatively simple to build. Again, really? Of course some people will feel hybrids support their needs better (city driving, for example), but you can hardly make a blanket statement that "they make no sense here". If the argument is that diesel fuel costs marginally more than regular gas, take into account the $1,300 tax credit as well.
12-17-08, 01:54 PM
#6
Is this a serious statement? Are the 53% of diesel cars sold in Europe all bought by clueless consumers for no reason?
Makes a lot of sense. Power, efficiency, durability, relatively simple to build. Again, really? Of course some people will feel hybrids support their needs better (city driving, for example), but you can hardly make a blanket statement that "they make no sense here". If the argument is that diesel fuel costs marginally more than regular gas, take into account the $1,300 tax credit as well.
Makes a lot of sense. Power, efficiency, durability, relatively simple to build. Again, really? Of course some people will feel hybrids support their needs better (city driving, for example), but you can hardly make a blanket statement that "they make no sense here". If the argument is that diesel fuel costs marginally more than regular gas, take into account the $1,300 tax credit as well.
12-17-08, 02:15 PM
#7
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are less costly to build than a complex hybrid powertrain, espcially when you don't have the economies of scale that Toyota has with their established supplier base. There's a reason Audi scrapped the plans for their own Hybrid. Costly to develop, costly to implement, and didn't seem to make much sense when their existing Diesels can compete with the same mileage figures. Even in light of this, I still have come to marvel and enjoy the Lexus hybrids
Not trying to turn this into a big debate, so I'll end by saying that both technologies have thier respective positives and negatives. But they both remain good alternatives to regular petrol for additional consumption decreases
Not trying to turn this into a big debate, so I'll end by saying that both technologies have thier respective positives and negatives. But they both remain good alternatives to regular petrol for additional consumption decreases
Last edited by FKL; 12-17-08 at 02:19 PM.
Trending Topics
12-17-08, 06:45 PM
#8
They are less costly to build than a complex hybrid powertrain, espcially when you don't have the economies of scale that Toyota has with their established supplier base. There's a reason Audi scrapped the plans for their own Hybrid. Costly to develop, costly to implement, and didn't seem to make much sense when their existing Diesels can compete with the same mileage figures. Even in light of this, I still have come to marvel and enjoy the Lexus hybrids Not trying to turn this into a big debate, so I'll end by saying that both technologies have thier respective positives and negatives. But they both remain good alternatives to regular petrol for additional consumption decreases
Not trying to turn this into a big debate, so I'll end by saying that both technologies have thier respective positives and negatives. But they both remain good alternatives to regular petrol for additional consumption decreases
12-18-08, 07:47 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
i think the big advantage to diesel vehicles is for those people who plan to keep the car for a very very long time, possibly forever. that way the initial higher cost and higher cost of fuell will be recovered and eventually the durability and efficiency of the diesel will become and advantage to the owner.
12-18-08, 07:50 AM
#10
i think the big advantage to diesel vehicles is for those people who plan to keep the car for a very very long time, possibly forever. that way the initial higher cost and higher cost of fuell will be recovered and eventually the durability and efficiency of the diesel will become and advantage to the owner.
Although I hate the smell of diesel and the taste it leaves in the air... yuck. I live in the city where the buses run on diesel and everytime they drive by I want to stop breathing because that stuff is so acrid.
12-18-08, 04:46 PM
#12
Lexus Test Driver
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More torque down low, where it really matters for everyday driving.
Although I hate the smell of diesel and the taste it leaves in the air... yuck. I live in the city where the buses run on diesel and everytime they drive by I want to stop breathing because that stuff is so acrid.
Although I hate the smell of diesel and the taste it leaves in the air... yuck. I live in the city where the buses run on diesel and everytime they drive by I want to stop breathing because that stuff is so acrid.
12-18-08, 06:03 PM
#13
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: northern ca
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this a serious statement? Are the 53% of diesel cars sold in Europe all bought by clueless consumers for no reason?
Makes a lot of sense. Power, efficiency, durability, relatively simple to build. Again, really? Of course some people will feel hybrids support their needs better (city driving, for example), but you can hardly make a blanket statement that "they make no sense here". If the argument is that diesel fuel costs marginally more than regular gas, take into account the $1,300 tax credit as well.
Makes a lot of sense. Power, efficiency, durability, relatively simple to build. Again, really? Of course some people will feel hybrids support their needs better (city driving, for example), but you can hardly make a blanket statement that "they make no sense here". If the argument is that diesel fuel costs marginally more than regular gas, take into account the $1,300 tax credit as well.
1) They are more expensive to build. This is reflected in the car price, usually and is usually significant (1K+).
2) Price of diesel vs. gasoline does not make a compelling case for a diesel. That leaves most of the folks out on the basis of simple economics. I would like to have the 700mi range and torque myself, but that is not an economic decision.
3) US does not have the refining method that produces sufficient quantities of diesel (~15% vs ~25% in Europe). If there was a big shift in diesel consumption, the price of diesel will come up, which will make #2 point even worse. Upgrading of existing refineries or building new ones is an option, but not a popular one, judging by the track record (no new refineries since 1970s).
4) Diesel is cheaper in Europe, if I am not mistaken.
5) Diesel engines still cannot pass future emission requirements in CA, NY and other states.
My gut feel is that the auto companies tested the waters and did not find the support they needed (from public, government, oil companies, etc.). I remember ~1 year ago there were some announcements of diesels coming over and diesel price went from slightly below premium to above premium.
12-18-08, 07:38 PM
#14
diesel is not cheaper in europe anymore, now it is a bit more expensive... you have lots of torque compared to 4cly gas engines but it does not last for long... at the same time you pay a lot more for diesel than petrol...
there are bunch of good and bad sides, which is why toyota has big lineup of diesels in europe ;-)
there are bunch of good and bad sides, which is why toyota has big lineup of diesels in europe ;-)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gojirra99
Car Chat
28
08-27-07 08:33 PM
LexFather
Car Chat
9
03-27-05 07:56 AM